Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:00):
Gary Jenkins, welcome to the podcast. Oh, thanks,
Gary Jenkins (00:00:02):
Mindy. Thanks for having
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:04):
Me. Oh my gosh, of course. This is gonna be really fun because, um, as I, I think I emailed you, Kenneth LeMaster - uh-huh. Who I had on the podcast, um, former correctional officer at Leavenworth, uh, Prison. He talked about, I think, going on your podcast. Yeah. Is that right? I've
Gary Jenkins (00:00:17):
Had him on a couple of times.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:18):
Couple of times, yeah. And so what was really fun is, one, I wanted to have him on to talk about local true crime. We know everybody's into true crime and we're gonna. Clearly that is the topic here today. Um, but people really went crazy for the stories that he had about the different, um, inmates at Leavenworth. And so immediately when he mentioned you, I had to reach out to you and have you come on and talk about everything that you've done. So I'm excited to have you here and share your, your Kansas City Mafia, mob, serial killer, all the things that you are, you, you've got inside that head of yours.
Gary Jenkins (00:00:49):
Really? Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:50):
You
Gary Jenkins (00:00:50):
Know, and Ken told me a great story. I have to tell this one story. And I'm like, "Oh, wow, this is cool." There's a guy in Kansas City at the time in the 80s and 90s when he finally went to prison the last time, named Junior Bradley. And Junior Bradley was a fence. And he had like a store down the city market and he would have all kinds of stuff for sale for about half price. But he, he organized that store. He had a restaurant. Everybody loved Junior. Everybody loved Junior that knows Junior. He helps people out. He went into a nursing home when he got out. He helped people out there. I had a friend of mine that went in down there. He said, he said, Junior Bradley, he got me all lined out with everything. So Ken tells me a story. H said, "You know, when Junior Bradley's here in prison, we always have him run the, the commissary." And he said, "Things run so much smoother when Junior's in the joint." So <laugh>.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:01:35):
Yeah. I love that. You guys must have had the best time. You probably could have talked for hours - Yeah. About all kind of stories that you guys could compare. So, okay. So let me do, let's see if I've got this intro right for you. So Gary, you are a retired KCPD intelligence unit detective. Correct.
Gary Jenkins (00:01:49):
Over
Page 1 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:01:50):
25 years doing that. Correct. Which we'll talk about, of course. Kansas City Mafia Investigator. Mm hmm. It's fun title. Um, attorney.
Gary Jenkins (00:01:58):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:01:59):
Documentary producer.
Gary Jenkins (00:02:00):
Yes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:02:00):
Author. And host of the award-winning Gangland Wire Crime Stories podcast, plus the second podcast that you've started. Correct.
Gary Jenkins (00:02:07):
Murder Blueprint. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:02:08):
Murder blueprint that we're gonna get into. So, um, yeah. I, I feel like we should set aside like six hours to go through all the stories that you have. <laugh> But we'll do our best to give everybody, um, an amazing taste of who you are, um, what you're doing. And then of course, everybody needs to go listen to your podcast that you have and, and everything. So, um, but okay, let's start with what's your background? Are you from around here? And talk to us about how you got into doing, um, the KCPD intelligence unit as a detective.
Gary Jenkins (00:02:35):
Well, I guess I'm a small town boy that came to the city and grew up in Plattsburgh, Missouri. A lot of listeners may know Plattsburgh's about 50 miles north of here. You know, came down to the city, got my first job. I just, right out of high school, I, I got a job and, uh, went to work. And I went to work at the, you know, the best job for a non-educated person you can get was at the Ford plant. Mm-hmm.
(00:02:57):
And I got married early and had a child. And so, you know, I went to work at the Ford plant. It was a pretty good job. And, and in 1971, I started noticing these ads for the Kansas City Police Department and they were hiring and, and they, it was really enticing, of course. I grew up, you know, playing Cowboys and Indians and, uh, the Calvary and Indians and the good guys and bad guys, you know, cowboys and the good guys, the guy with the white hat and the bad guys and the saloon and the gunfights and OK Corral and all that. <laugh> You know, I, I, I was always, of course, you know, I was a boy. Yeah. I was getting trans by all that stuff. And I though, well, hmm. And there was cop shows on at the time I remember Ironsides. This one detective, he always had like a snub nose 38 underneath his coat.
(00:03:42):
And I though, yeah, I'd like to be a detective like that. Yeah. I think I wanted the gun more than anything. Sure. <laugh> Now guns have taken such a bad twist, but, uh, but -
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:51):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:03:51):
That's, that's what I, you know, that's how I grew up and that's what was in my mind. And, and so I applied. I hated to work at the Ford plant and I applied. I actually had to take a little bit of a pay cut, Mindy. And but I applied and I remember one guy yelled at me across the line. H said, "Hey, you're an idiot. You're an idiot to leave this great job here." I said, "Yeah, I'm putting a part on this motor every 90 seconds." Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:04:12):
You're like living the dream over here. <laugh> Living
Gary Jenkins (00:04:14):
The dream, begging to go to the bathroom and - <laugh> Anyhow, I, uh, you know, I went on and went to the academy and kind of interesting little story to lead into my later career. I was really young looking. I looked like I was about 16 years old when I came on.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:04:30):
Baby face.
Gary Jenkins (00:04:31):
I can't even imagine what people though when I stopped and when I got out in, into patrol, but really young looking and we had the FFA convention in town, which is the Future Farmers of America, which all these high school kids, boys and girls from around the country, mainly boys come in and they go to the municipal auditorium downtown and, you know, and then they go out and then they are just flooded the streets of Kansas City. It's like nothing you've ever seen since, I don't think.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:04:57):
Wow.
Gary Jenkins (00:04:58):
There was like, there would be like 40,000 of them coming in. Oh
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:00):
My gosh.
Gary Jenkins (00:05:01):
Yeah, it was a lot. So vice unit would always get extra cops and kind of flood the streets to watch the prostitutes and keep the prostitution down, make them a little more aware. And they even got it because I was so young looking at another guy, they got me out of the academy and gave me an FFA coat <laugh> and went down and, and tried to see if I could arrest any prostitutes like - Oh my gosh. Man, I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. <laugh> They just -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:26):
Throwing you in. Yeah. They
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Gary Jenkins (00:05:28):
Just threw me in the deep end and I don't know, you know, there's a set of bars up and down the street and we'd go in those old hotels down there close to the, uh, on the west side about 11th, 12th and Central over to Broadway. And, and, uh, they had these, the, the bell boys in there would be pimps and, and, and they didn't buy my story at all. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:47):
They though you were
Gary Jenkins (00:05:48):
16?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:48):
They,
Gary Jenkins (00:05:49):
They did not buy my story. They just said, "Get out of here."
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:52):
Yeah. Yeah. Like
Gary Jenkins (00:05:53):
One of them just said, "Well, good evening, officer." <laugh> <laugh> Uh, and so, you know, that was -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:58):
So that's like your first thing that you did. That's your first role that you had? My
Gary Jenkins (00:06:02):
First thing that was kind of undercover and <laugh> -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:04):
Wow.
Gary Jenkins (00:06:04):
But, you know, I made it through the night and - Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:07):
Went
Gary Jenkins (00:06:07):
On. I made one arrest. Had to go out on Troost to go get in a car and, and arrest a prostitute that was walking the streets on Troost. But I made my first arrest and - Yeah. I know I, it scared me to death. It scared me to death. <laugh> I bet. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:20):
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'Cause you were actually - I've actually
Gary Jenkins (00:06:21):
That girl more than it scared me though when I arrested her. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:25):
So you were how old at that point? Like in your early 20s?
Gary Jenkins (00:06:28):
I was 26.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:29):
26. Okay. So when you look back at that now, what, like, do you look back and just go, "Oh my gosh, that set the tone for where I was gonna go?" Or like how did you, how did you adapt to it after that point?
Gary Jenkins (00:06:41):
I mean, that's, yeah, that set the tone. I liked, I liked this undercover work. I liked this freedom that you had to go out and, and, and do stuff that was kind of secret and - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:50):
But
Gary Jenkins (00:06:51):
Yet you were carrying a gun and that kind of a thing. So I mean -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:53):
Absolutely. Left
Gary Jenkins (00:06:54):
Admit, you know, I'm, I'm like a TV policeman, you know? Yeah. That
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:57):
I
Gary Jenkins (00:06:57):
Always wanted to be. <laugh> Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:59):
You literally got to live your dream. I did. Yeah. Okay. So, so kind of explain to me, at that point, you were in the KCPD. What's sort of the hierarchy of the KCPD? Like the intelligence unit, I was trying to make sense. Kind of explain it to me like that's one division of the KCPD. Right. And then how did you get into that in particular?
Gary Jenkins (00:07:18):
Uh, you know, you start out in patrol. Everybody has a rite of patrol car for a couple of years and - It's the
Page 5 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:07:23):
Rite of passage to get in.
Gary Jenkins (00:07:24):
The rite of passage. And then to get, you're not gonna get an intelligence unit out of that because it is the most elite of any of these other specialized units. And you've got your tac unit, your SWAT guys, which they had just started a SWAT team at the time. I, I was kinda trying to get into it. Uh, I got into a station, police station burglary unit where we investigated residential burglaries and larcenies and cases like that. And, and had a lot of fun doing that and, and made some good cases and, and kind of you start to
establish your reputation as a guy who can get the job done and, and guy who will pay attention to business and, and will see beyond what's on the surface and wasn't lazy and did, didn't do the minimum. So you start establishing your reputation then. Uh-huh.
(00:08:09):
'Cause on the police department, like 1200 officers, maybe a thousand now, but, but your reputation is everything. And everybody knows your reputation. E- everybody that matters knows your reputation pretty quick.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:08:22):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:08:22):
So you start establishing a reputation at that point in time. And, and I'd been there for about two and a half years and they were gonna dissolve that unit into, uh, the downtown. They, they combined their station burglaries with the headquarters burglary unit. And they were taking them out of the stations and back into headquarters. And then I had a shot to go to one of these SWAT teams and I was working on that. You know, you gotta, you gotta work the systems. Any, anybody that works for any big organization knows you wanna go someplace, you gotta start working the systems and make your friends and, and get things laid out.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:08:54):
Some networking, a little internal politics maybe.
Gary Jenkins (00:08:57):
Well, I had a connection into one of the SWAT teams, talked to the sergeant over there. It was looking pretty good. And a friend of mine who I'd gone to high school with had already gone through one of those tech squads and made his bones, if you will, there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:11):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:09:12):
And he had gone to the intelligence unit. Well, the intelligence unit, I'd always wanted to go there. I'd already sent them reports anytime, anytime I could find something that I though they'd be interested in.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:24):
Uh-huh.
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Gary Jenkins (00:09:25):
Or I'd just drop by and get to know one of the sergeants and ask him for his advice about something that was working. Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:31):
A
Gary Jenkins (00:09:31):
And, you know, they - And so
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:33):
They started to go, "Who's this guy? We need to figure out who this Gary. Who
Gary Jenkins (00:09:36):
Is this guy?"
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:37):
I
Gary Jenkins (00:09:37):
Sent him some stuff in that they were really interested in. Uh, a, uh - In
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:41):
Terms of cases, things happening? In
Gary Jenkins (00:09:42):
Terms of cases in, in terms of a, um, uh, m - a multi-state robbery crew that was going around robbing grocery stores and a local guy who was, uh, pol - connected politically and, and connected, uh, he, he worked for a, one of the new car dealerships as a finance manager and he had a lot of connections to finance cars and, but he was the guy that was furnishing cars and, and, uh, helping these guys with these, uh, in this interstate grocery store robbery place. Because back then, you rob a grocery store on payday, you hit a score, you hit 20, $25,000. That was really a lucrative - Yeah. Uh, robbery target. No anymore because everybody uses credit cards, but back then it was a real good target. Yeah. So I found out a lot of information from, from my street sources and I'd ra - written up reports and sent that to intelligence unit and they were really interested in it.
(00:10:33):
And, you know, it was funny. They didn't really know about this kind of kingpin of this guy because he was a low-key guy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:10:39):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:10:39):
And they sent a couple of their guys out to try to watch him and just see what he was about, you know, see where he lived and watch him. They hadn't been there 30 minutes and a car full of Muslims, black
Page 7 of 84
Muslims, what they called the Fruit of Islam, which is the kind of the protection crew of the Black Muslim church at that time, showed up and started following them around. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:02):
Jeez.
Gary Jenkins (00:11:02):
He had, he had saw them, he called his friends in the church.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:08):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:11:08):
And it, it was all kind of the one segment, segment of that church that was connected in the, in the bank robbery, upper echelon crime narcotics people. There was just some, one small section and don't paint the whole black Muslim church or religion with that. This was one small segment of that - Right. Was connected to these guys and, and he was connected to them. And, and so they were really impressed that, "Hey, this guy found somebody that we didn't know about." Anyhow, Bobby has gone down there, my friend Bobby Arnold, uh, I have to give him all the credit. He's gone down there because they don't really bring you unless they know a lot about you. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:44):
They,
Gary Jenkins (00:11:44):
They know like Bobby, we'd known each other since we were little kids. Bobby had come down there because his wife had worked with the wife of one of the longtime detectives down there and they got really friendly. And so they knew a lot of, you know, his, this guy's wife, Ray Kenny was his longtime detective down there, his wife learned a lot about Bobby and, and his wife and where they came from - Uh-huh. What their life was like. So when they had an opening, they took Bobby down there and then when he had another opening, you know, and I just was leaving this field investigations unit and - Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:17):
You
Gary Jenkins (00:12:17):
Know, they knew a lot about me because of Bobby and because I -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:20):
You made your way in. Yeah. And
Gary Jenkins (00:12:21):
He'd known me all my life and plus I'd already established this reputation down there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:25):
Yeah.
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Gary Jenkins (00:12:25):
So I got to go with the intelligence unit when I had about, oh, let's see, I had about five, four, six. I think I had about six years on. Okay. It was 1976. Had five years on.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:36):
So you knew you wanted to get to the intelligence unit at that time, and this is still around today, known as the intelligence unit? Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:12:42):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:42):
Okay. I think
Gary Jenkins (00:12:43):
It is. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:43):
So what exactly does the intelligence unit do or what it, what was it doing at the time when you got into it?
Gary Jenkins (00:12:48):
Uh, yeah. Back then, 1976, it's different today - Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:51):
Because
Gary Jenkins (00:12:51):
There is no mob. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:52):
There's
Gary Jenkins (00:12:52):
No, uh, Italian mafia to follow around. Or is there. Or is there, yeah. <laugh> That's always a question. Yeah. I know. I have to answer that question all the time. Yeah. They, at that time, they had two squads. They had the civil order squad and the, um, I think enforcement squad. Enforcement squad was supposed to do the straight real crime things, the bank robberies, the mafia, those kinds of things, and, and follow mob guys around and write reports on them. And they worked really close with the FBI because the FBI has always trusted the intelligence unit. Mm-hmm. Whereas they wouldn't trust a lot of other people on the police department because of our vetting. They always trusted us. Yeah. And the organized crime squad, which was huge at the time, really trusted us to, you know, they'd give us, you know, tips and, and, you know, go out and do this and do that.
(00:13:42):
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Check on this guy, see where this guy is. You know, this guy had owned this business or not. We heard he did. Those kinds of questions, we'd run out and do it right away.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:50):
Yep.
Gary Jenkins (00:13:51):
Uh, the other squad was a civil disorder. I said civil order. Civil disorder squad was really a holdover from the '60s when they used to like, we had Black Panthers and we had, uh, S- SDS and we had some bombs set, one of them down the plaza and one in, uh, um, a prosecutor's, uh, mailbox or something. You know, we had two or three bombs set during the anti-war days and so they, this was kind of out of that. But by now, there wasn't hardly anything to do. But I got taken into that squad because that was, had the opening. That's where Bobby worked and that was the sergeant that liked me the most. Yeah. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:14:26):
I
Gary Jenkins (00:14:26):
Got in that squad. So, but there was so little to do in the, that area. Yeah. We had one guy, that's all he did. That's all he did was try to maintain some relationships in that, that subculture and try to, you know, when they do some minor demonstrations, but we didn't really pay much attention to them. So we started working organized crime immediately. Mm-hmm. And Bobby and I, one of our first thing was we, we really, uh, landed with a splash. He hadn't been there very long and, and they'd already been running him through the mill, trying to making fun of him as a guys doing these things, playing the dozens on you as they say, you know, making fun of you and laughing at little, little things you try to do. It's trying to get you in your place, you know?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:15:09):
Yeah. And I
Gary Jenkins (00:15:09):
Was never a guy that would stay in my place very well. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:15:12):
And - Which is probably why you are where you are today and accomplished so much. Well, probably. Continue on.
Gary Jenkins (00:15:19):
Larry gave us a tip. Our sergeant, Larry Wisher gave us a tip he'd gotten from the FBI. Said, "Go out and check on this used car dealership. We're here, you know, we get a. Bureau says there might be some kind of mob activity out there." So we'd go out and we'd drive by it and we'd drive by it. And we finally, we pick up a tag off of a mob guy. Mm-hmm. A mob guy named Jimmy Duarte, who was little known in the, what we call the North End over at the social club, but he was really well known, you know, on a larger basis. He had, he kind of was the mob boss, if you will, like a, a capo of the south side. He had everything south of 75th Street. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:16:00):
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They
Gary Jenkins (00:16:01):
Kind of divide things up geographically a little bit. And he had everything south of 75th Street, and this was about 80th and Truce. There's Jimmy Duarte there. Oh man, we got something. All right, we got something. Look into Jimmy Duarte and, and he had just got out of the joint out of Leavenworth. He had, he and a, a guy named Brancato, a local guy, had gone down into the Grand Lake of the Cherokees in Northwest Oklahoma.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:16:26):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:16:27):
And taken a couple of, uh. Well, they, they connected with a local mob guy or mob associate down there named Jack Michael King. And they brought a guy named Clifford Bishop who was from Kansas City, but he was a street thug and he was, he was Duarte's enforcer. He was a street guy who, who was tough.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:16:46):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:16:47):
And didn't mind going to the penitentiary and that kind of thing and wouldn't talk. <laugh> Took him down there and Jack Michael King and Duarte had gotten next to the prosecutor and bribed him and the sheriff. They rent, they leased a car for the sheriff to drive personally as it came out. Uh-huh. And what they wanted to do was all the clubs around the Grand, Grand Lake, they wanted to line them up to open them up for gambling and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:17:14):
Maybe
Gary Jenkins (00:17:14):
Even some prostitution. They wanted to open up this whole county for illegal activity and that, and that would be Duarte's little dom- domain down there. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:17:23):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:17:23):
They had one club owner, Mr. Yuck Club, a guy named Jess Roberts, and he wouldn't go along with it. So Jack Michael King and this Clifford Bishop got him out in the car one night and they shot him. But he didn't die. Never, never tried to shoot somebody and leave him alive. Yeah. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:17:40):
He didn't
Gary Jenkins (00:17:41):
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Die. And they did, they left him there and he came back and he testified. And then Duarte and Brancato and the, the prosecutor, the, the sheriff evaded prosecution, but the prosecutor went to jail and Bishop went to jail and King went to jail, um, for this, you know, scam. Mm-hmm. This organized crime racket, if you will, to take over this whole county and, and using violence to do it. Really didn't do very long. Did about three years is all they did.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:08):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:18:09):
So Duarte was fresh back out of jail from that and he was just starting to operate again. So they, you know - Is
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:15):
This getting into like the late '70s or? Yeah, this,
Gary Jenkins (00:18:17):
This is like 77. Okay. Uh, later part of 76, 77, just before the whole thing blew up - Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:26):
Over
Gary Jenkins (00:18:27):
The River Key. This is just before that. So you'll
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:29):
Get in, you'll get into that.
Gary Jenkins (00:18:31):
We'll get to the River Key.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:32):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:18:32):
Everybody wants to know about the River Key. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:33):
How
Gary Jenkins (00:18:34):
Much time we got here, Mindy? <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:36):
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I, I would say I've got all day, but yeah. No, we'll, we'll keep going. We'll. Yeah. I, I love these details and people are loving these stories. And by the way, it's like we need to put a pin in the name Brandkato because everybody knows that name today. Yeah. There's a catering company. Yeah, right. It's like all of this leading back to the origins. It's so interesting. And,
Gary Jenkins (00:18:52):
And just one thing, you know, everybody in a, has a particular name is not a criminal in the Italian - Of
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:59):
Course. Community.
Gary Jenkins (00:19:00):
He was related, but - Disclaimer.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:02):
But, but
Gary Jenkins (00:19:02):
The rest of the Brand Catos, Brand Cato cl - catering. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:05):
They used to
Gary Jenkins (00:19:06):
Own Fairyland Park back then and he was connected to that somehow. Yeah. Which
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:09):
Is out
Gary Jenkins (00:19:10):
South of 75th Street, isn't
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:11):
It?
Gary Jenkins (00:19:11):
Yep. <laugh> Uh, but, but present day, Brandkato, you know - Totally
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:16):
Separate. There is no,
Gary Jenkins (00:19:17):
There is no criminal - Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:18):
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Let's not get the current Brandkato family coming after us. <laugh>
Gary Jenkins (00:19:21):
Right. And, and so we, I think Bobby had this idea. I talk about this in my documentary, um, uh, Gangland Wire -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:32):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:19:32):
Uh, which is about this timeframe and, and going into the, uh, River Key, and it's available on Amazon for a rental for a low, low price of $1.99. <laugh> Yes,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:43):
Yes. We'll make sure to pull that through.
Gary Jenkins (00:19:45):
But, so Bobby said, uh, "Let's go over to that cemetery, cemetery across the street at Gregory and Trust, uh, Calvary," I think is the name of it. Mm. Might be wrong, but cemetery, great big cemetery. Mm-hmm. And we talked to the cemetery manager, and we asked him, "Let's set up a cemetery tent like there's gonna be a, um, uh, burial - Uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:20:07):
But
Gary Jenkins (00:20:07):
Just close all four sides." And it was cool enough that you could do that and close all four sides. And we'd go over there before anybody get to the car dealership and slip in with our camera, and we start shooting pictures. And we got some great pictures of Dougherty and talking to different people and license numbers and all the people that were coming and going. And, and, you know, finally after about a week, you know, we hadn't, still hadn't been burnt, but we probably had enough. We weren't gonna learn much more. Uh, so we finally quit that. But it kinda served as a basis to we, and we developed. We, we saw one guy going in and out of there, and we went over and approached him a few weeks later, and he became an informant, and he told us really about a guy named Carl Spero had been coming in there.
(00:20:46):
And this guy had go in the back room, Sparrow would go into an office and meet people.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:20:52):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:20:53):
And they, and as my f - my new source, John says, you know, they're really dangerous people, really scary people. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:20:59):
Page 14 of 84
And
Gary Jenkins (00:20:59):
He would go into the back room into a parts room they had where they had a little repair shop in the back of the car dealership, and he'd listen at the window. And so he told us everything that he could hear - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:09):
About how
Gary Jenkins (00:21:09):
They were trying to get this guy out of jail and they were gonna do this and they were gonna do that. And they'd stole a bulldozer somewhere. And, and so he told us about all that kind of stuff.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:19):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:21:20):
And really, you know, really got us on that in the middle of Carl Sparrow, who was an, uh, an upstart young Turk in the mob family, local mob family who had just got out of jail himself as he built a crew to then move in on the Savella family. Uh-huh. He wanted to move in on them. They were not allowing him to come in. They'd already killed his older brother by then, Nick Sparrow, a few years before that because he was kinda, he, he was getting too popular and getting too well known. Mm-hmm. A- and another reason they killed him, which is kind of interesting, I think, for people at the time, Nick Savella was real conservative.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:58):
Yeah. He
Gary Jenkins (00:21:59):
Even showed up at, um, the, um, oh man, oh God, what's the. Phil Carterello was the head of it. Uh, le - not legal aid, the, uh, uh, civil, civil rights thing for, um - I
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:22:16):
Wish I could help you. I don't know. Oh,
Gary Jenkins (00:22:18):
Man. Anyhow - It'll
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:22:19):
Come to you. <laugh> It's a legal
Gary Jenkins (00:22:20):
Office in Kansas City - Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:22:21):
Page 15 of 84
That
Gary Jenkins (00:22:22):
Has decisions and, and may help people out and protect their civil rights. And he had been on the phone on a radio show about abortion and -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:22:31):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:22:31):
And, you know, uh, espoused abortion ideas that it was be a, we should have abortion. Nick Savella showed up down there because he came, this kid came from the neighborhood as, uh, he was a young lawyer at the time, and berated him for having that idea. And Nick Savella didn't allow his guys to have beards. They were supposed to wear, you know, like, Sansabelt slacks and, you know, polo shirts maybe and, and leather coats and, and maybe a hat like this. But they really dressed like they were in uniform. You could look at them out in front of the social club over there at 5th and Truce, and you can spot all those mob guys because they all dress the same. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:07):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:23:07):
This, uh, Spiro, he was dressing in flowery clothes, you know, blousy sleeves on his things in the 70s, the late 60s - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:16):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:23:16):
Early 70s, and, and he had facial hair.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:19):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:23:19):
And, and they even had informants talking to theSpero and saying, you know, ever since he became a hippie, you just can't trust him anymore. <laugh> And then all of a sudden he's dead. Oh geez.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:27):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:23:28):
His brother is in the joint at the time. He comes out and they, he starts forming this crew. Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:33):
Page 16 of 84
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:23:33):
And they end up going after and s - going into this whole Sabela Spiro war, which is kind of - Which is a
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:39):
Big story. Which is,
Gary Jenkins (00:23:40):
Which is a big story that happened alongside the, the River Key. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:44):
And a
Gary Jenkins (00:23:44):
Lot of people get those two mixed up. It's really important
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:47):
To
Gary Jenkins (00:23:47):
Keep those two things apart. Let
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:49):
Me. Can I ask a quick question? How far back does Kansas City Mafia/Mob, um, go? Like when, what's kind of like the, the origin of this here?
Gary Jenkins (00:24:00):
It's just like New York or Chicago. Uh, any, any
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:04):
City
Gary Jenkins (00:24:04):
East of, uh, the Mississippi or the Missouri River, I guess.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:08):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:24:10):
They had, you know, immigrants coming up through New Orleans, coming from New York to Chicago and down to Kansas City around the turn of the century. Large. Okay. There was a huge influx of Southern Italian - Yeah. Sicilian immigrants that came in at that time.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:26):
Page 17 of 84
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:24:27):
And of course, they're looking for jobs and looking for opportunity. And, and, and a lot of the opportunity, the, the Irish have all the cop jobs and the fire department jobs, and the Germans have a lot of the business sewed up, and the English have all the banking sewed up, of course.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:41):
Ah. And have
Gary Jenkins (00:24:42):
All the control, the, the levers of power the English have, because they've been here the longest. Uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:46):
The
Gary Jenkins (00:24:46):
Germans have kind of come in. The Irish have come in and, and they're, they're starting to work their way up to the American dream. And here come these darker complected, funny talking - <laugh>. non-English speaking - Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:59):
Immigrants
Gary Jenkins (00:25:00):
Coming in, uh, in droves and, and populating, you know, whole neighborhoods. Mm-hmm. Like they did here in Kansas City. They did this and every city has a little Italy. New York's got a little Italy. Right. We've got a little Italy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:11):
Yeah. They,
Gary Jenkins (00:25:12):
They're down there and that's their basis. And so they start, you know, doing, creating restaurant. What can you do when they won't give you a job?m. When you can't get a job as a policeman, you can't get a job with the city. You can't get a job with the government. You can't get a job with a bank. You can't get a job selling something.m.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:28):
It's
Gary Jenkins (00:25:28):
Because you're different. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:29):
Page 18 of 84
You
Gary Jenkins (00:25:29):
Start businesses. So they started, uh, what they used to call spaghetti joints. You start restaurants and - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:34):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:25:35):
They start, uh, you know, push carts selling vegetables and working over to City Market because they're, and all these things are always adjacent to the city mar - the City Market. So the
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:43):
City Market was there back, what, like around the turn of the century? I don't even know the history of it. It was already there. Yeah. Which is of course where the River Key is. Right. And to be clear, Q-U-A-Y always looks like River Quay. <laugh> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people. River Key for people. Yeah. It's always confusing. Struggle
Gary Jenkins (00:26:00):
With that one. Yeah. It's, see, that was the original downtown - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:03):
Main
Gary Jenkins (00:26:04):
Street of Kansas City was right there and you had the City Market was right there. Yeah. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:07):
All the
Gary Jenkins (00:26:08):
Government buildings were right down there along Delaware and Maine. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:11):
And then
Gary Jenkins (00:26:12):
About 10 blocks east of there is Little Italy. Yep. And so, you know, they get their jobs down there at the City Market and they buy vegetables and go out and sell them in the neighborhoods and that kind of thing. But they brought along this thing, this mafia thing from Sicily, which had already been going for a long time.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:29):
Okay.
Page 19 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:26:30):
It's kind of a shadow government. Good
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:31):
To know.
Gary Jenkins (00:26:32):
Over in Italy, Southern Italy and, and especially Sicily.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:36):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:26:37):
And because, you know, the, the, the seated government in Italy was not very kind to the people down here in Sicily. They were kind of the stepchildren.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:26:45):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:26:46):
And mainly abused people. And so the mafia had kind of grown up or ki - had been, had risen up as a shadow government, as a thing that helped people - uh-huh. And backing out in the country. So they bring these guys over and they're not having the opportunity and, you know, they don't mind committing crimes. So we had the original, uh, mustache piece. The godfather tells us exact story. Yeah. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:09):
What they
Gary Jenkins (00:27:09):
Call the mustache piece. These old guys that, that had big mustaches and, you know, sat around in the pool halls and the card rooms and, and drank espresso and that kind of thing and had old world days. But all they were doing was they, they were, uh, because they didn't really dare go out into the larger neighborhoods because the English, the Irish cops would be on them like, like, uh, uh, I don't wanna say it. Okay. Yeah. They'd be, they'd be on them. Yes. <laugh> And, and so they victimized their other Paisans or the other fellow immigrants there. They were the ones that
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:44):
They would,
Gary Jenkins (00:27:45):
You know, send the black hand letters to and, and threaten to kill them or threaten to kidnap their children or maybe kidnap one of their kids and - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:52):
The,
Page 20 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:27:52):
The ones that were making, doing well with their businesses. And, and out of that, and just like in The Godfather, those guys, the younger guys are coming up.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:02):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:28:02):
The, uh, maybe the first generation has been born is coming up, s - all speak English. Few of them are, are younger that have freshly come over, but a lot of them have been here for a while, but they're coming up and, and they're smart - Yeah. Young guys who need opportunity. And, and so Prohibition comes along. Mm. That's the lynchpin here. Okay. Prohibition, Prohibition then totally ended the mustache piece because they didn't care about making money. They just cared about domination and being the patron of their little neighborhood. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:37):
These
Gary Jenkins (00:28:37):
Guys joined with Jewish gangsters at the time and saw the money that could be made in prohibition, because Jewish people came over there about the same time. They were darker complected. They spoke funny. They spoke a different language many times.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:51):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:28:52):
A- a- and so they j - there's a lot of those guys that joined in and, and saw the money that can be made in prohibition. And, and by nature of the fact of selling booze like that, it has to be organized and these guys were organized. Yep. And so it just all fit like a hand in a glove that's perfectly fit - Right. Better than OJ's glove fit. <laugh> And so they, you know, they, they start doing - Who are some
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:17):
Of the names? So like was Savella during that time? You know, Savella
Gary Jenkins (00:29:21):
Was a young guy - Okay. During
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:22):
That time.
Gary Jenkins (00:29:22):
Um - I mean,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:23):
Page 21 of 84
Like, are we talking Lazia, Pendergast? Like is that - This is
Gary Jenkins (00:29:26):
Just prior to Pendergast. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:27):
Just prior to
Gary Jenkins (00:29:29):
Pendergast. Got
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:30):
It. Since
Gary Jenkins (00:29:30):
Pendergast, his brother has just started to film hi - uh, film hi - uh, create his political base over the
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:37):
West Bottoms.
Gary Jenkins (00:29:38):
Got
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:38):
It.
Gary Jenkins (00:29:38):
And so Tom's a young guy and, and his brother Jim and, and they're, they're, you know, they're Irish. And so they're moving into city government and they're moving into, you know, getting jobs for other Irish people at the police department and the fire department and s - and building their voting base out, out, you know, the silk stocking, the English people out the plaza people. They're, you know, they don't have anything to do with it. So it divided. Up into the, the, uh, rabbits and the, and the goats. The goats were in the West Bottoms, which were the Irish political organization, and the rabbits were up on the hill where rabbits grazing the grass. Got
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:11):
It. And
Gary Jenkins (00:30:11):
That was mainly English and the Germans and, and people that kind of had gotten it, had it made, uh, were doing better.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:18):
Yeah.
Page 22 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:30:18):
So he organized all this and the Italians are down in the north end in, in Little Italy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:23):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:30:24):
And they, you know, they have gotten organized. They've got, you know, they're making money in prohibition.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:29):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:30:30):
Making a lot of money. They've gotten really well organized. Gambling's coming along and they're, they're doing, uh, you know, they like get, make a, get a race wire. People wanna bet on horse races back then. Yeah. And everybody didn't bet on the football and everything else. Yeah. <laugh> It was horse races. And you have to get results from around the country and they got connected with, with other Jewish gangsters in other cities and have race wire coming in. And, and that's when Sabella is a young guy coming up. Mm-hmm. There are these older guys at that time, uh, Charlie Gargada, Charlie Benagio, who will become pretty famous later on.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:31:04):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:31:05):
Uh, they're coming up and, and everybody's getting involved in politics. They realize now how important the political arm of the mob is. Mm-hmm. It's huge and hugely important. And Johnny Lazia is, he's gotten connected to, he was kind of the, the mob boss in the '30s, right, out of prohibition into the '30s. And, and he's even got an office down in police headquarters because he's gotten connected with Pendergast and the political organization. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:31:34):
And,
Gary Jenkins (00:31:35):
And he eventually, he, in one election, I wanna say 33, 34, probably 33, he exerts the Italian power and takes the first ward away from the Irish. They had Mike Ross, I think was his name was kind of the political boss for Pendergast down in the north end in Little Italy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:31:55):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:31:56):
They exert certain amount of political power. They kill some people at, at some of the polling places. They kidnap some poll workers and, and show that, "Hey, we got some power here." Mm-hmm.
Page 23 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:06):
Pinnergast
Gary Jenkins (00:32:07):
Then allows John Lazid then to become that political boss. And he moves in.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:11):
He's
Gary Jenkins (00:32:11):
Got this office down in the same, uh, down by the police director they called it at the time. And I even saw an old paper where they were doing a hire, new hire on the police department said, okay, John Lazien written at the bottom of it. So he was, you know, and Pinnergast was allowing them to pick people to believe policemen and he picked his own thugs to be policemen because they really were like his, you know, his little gang out there - Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:34):
That
Gary Jenkins (00:32:35):
Would make sure the vote came in right. You know,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:37):
You got
Gary Jenkins (00:32:37):
To vote right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:38):
So you obviously have this incredible wealth of information. Did you have this interest like when you were in your 20s, when you were getting into this line of work, or where did you start to go back and research and study and really become this like guru for what you now do today, which is telling these stories and interviewing all these people? When did that kind of passion or interest come to you? Oh,
Gary Jenkins (00:33:02):
Well, when I was a little kid, I loved history. <laugh> Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:05):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:33:05):
I loved, I loved to read. I was an, a voracious reader and I loved history and I loved the accent party. That what I loved about history. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:11):
Page 24 of 84
<laugh>
Gary Jenkins (00:33:12):
I don't care about dates and all that, which sometimes details will escape me, but - Sure. I know the stories. I love the stories and, and, you know, I loved history. Yeah. And, you know, that just was always, you know - Always in your blood. Always a voracious, a voracious leader, reader. Mm-hmm. And, you know, continued on. And, and when I got on the police department, you know, you start hearing these stories, these cop stories. Yeah. And we tell stories to each other and I got a jillion of them when I, they kind of start rolling out even back -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:38):
Right.
Gary Jenkins (00:33:39):
Back into, you know, patrol, you know, and, and had great, great stories. And, you know, so I just, I was attracted to the storytelling part
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:46):
Of it.
Gary Jenkins (00:33:46):
Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:47):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:33:48):
And then as I got older, I realized in the organized crime, I realized you needed to understand the history of, of what's going on to understand what's going on today.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:58):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:33:58):
You can't just like look at something in a vacuum. You gotta know, you know, where did these people come from? You know what's - Yeah. What's their base - I was connected. Yeah. How's that, you know, why is this guy here? What's his connection? He's got - Right. You go back and you look and you'll find some familial cli - connection or some business connection or something -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:16):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:34:17):
That then it'll start making sense - Yeah. Why
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:19):
Page 25 of 84
That
Gary Jenkins (00:34:19):
Guy's there. And, and, and so then it just starts building. I don't know. I just always found it fascinating. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:24):
I love it. Well, I'm curious, um, what are some of your, like, what were some of the scariest moments for you being on the job? <laugh> What are some stories that you can share about you in your line of work and what you had to do that stand out that people would find really fascinating during your time?
Gary Jenkins (00:34:43):
Oh, <laugh> I don't know. I, uh, uh, I'm trying to think. I, I, you know, I remember things like in patrol. I remember one time in patrol, it was, actually yesterday was Labor Day. It was Labor Day. I believe it was hot.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:00):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:35:01):
And I was an aggressive young policeman for more aggressive than I, and I don't mean physically, but -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:05):
Sure.
Gary Jenkins (00:35:06):
Digging people up. And, and so I knew this woman was wanting on a actual felony warrant. This was back when, you know, I, for a young guy, you know, six months or a year on to be, serve a felony warrant. That, you know, that was, they had some bragging rights there. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:21):
Everybody
Gary Jenkins (00:35:22):
Imagine.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:23):
Bringing
Gary Jenkins (00:35:23):
Somebody in for a parking warrant, but this is a felony warrant. <laugh> I think it was just for bad checks or something. But anyhow.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:28):
Yeah. So
Page 26 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:35:29):
I see this woman. She's pretty recognizable. She's up on the second floor of a balcony and it's, it's like, this is Labor Day. I'm pretty sure it's la - it was a holiday. I think it was Labor Day. Uh, she's up there. So I call somebody and we go marching up the stairs on this fourth floor walk-ups and we get up there and somebody lets us in this apartment. And I'd seen her on Linwood. I'd seen her out on the front balcony. And, and so they called back to the back toward the kitchen and said, "So-and-so come on up here. These officers want to talk to you." I'll never forget she had a barbecue fork in her hand. <laugh> Oh. And I said, you know, "Ma'am, uh, we've got this warrant for you, you know, we need to take you in. It's Labor Day." And she just starts going ballistic.
(00:36:10):
I'll never forget. I was watching that barbecue fork and she was just going back and, you know, she wasn't like threatening me with it like that, you know, like, like I'm gonna stick you with it. She was just ges gesticulating with it to make her point. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:22):
Uh-huh. You prob - you could've seen that coming with her holding that.
Gary Jenkins (00:36:26):
I don't know. Somehow you just like relax. I, you know, at first it just scared the heck out of me. And then you just kinda relax and, and just, she just kept talking and kept talking. Finally, finally somebody behind her came and said, you know, you probably just need to go with these officers.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:42):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:36:43):
And she did. So that was, that was a scary min I had a couple of scary moments like that. There's another one in patrol. I had this kid that I'd seen on the streets. You, you, you get to know the, I'd always stop and talk to these kids. Yeah. You gotta find out what's going on. Businessmen and, and stuff in your patrol car. A lot of these guys just drive by and never even talk to anybody. Well, I'd talk, stop and talk to them. So I got to know this kid and the chiefs put on a program where they would take neighborhood kids to the chiefs game. It was before the chiefs got so popular obviously
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:37:13):
Back
Gary Jenkins (00:37:13):
In the 70s. Sure. So I got ahold of this kid and I said, "Go check with your mom." And he did. I think I met his mom then and, and I said, "I'll pick him up. I'm working that day. I'll pick him up and drop him off the station," which is about, I don't know, 15 blocks away, 20 blocks away from their house. And I said, "He'll have to walk back or you come, have to come and get him." She said, "Okay."
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:37:32):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:37:32):
Page 27 of 84
So I got him that day and he went to chief's game and I didn't think anything more about it. The next week, I got a call from the dispatcher and said, you know, 1:54, would you meet Mrs. Jones at, you know, gave her address about 38th and Olive or something like that. And I said, okay. And I'm about ready to get off. <laugh> And I drive over there because I think she's just gonna say, "Well, thanks so much." Yeah. "You had a good time." <laugh> Mindy, I pull around the corner and she's out in front of her house and there's like stone pillars next to the steps that lead up to her house and she's got a gun out and she's like pulling, pointing a gun down the street screaming at somebody. One of her, she had some teenage daughters and one of her daughters was out in the street with a kitchen knife in each hand sparring around with some other kid.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:18):
Geez. And
Gary Jenkins (00:38:19):
I look down the street and there's a guy standing down the street and he's yelling back up the street at her. <laugh> This
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:25):
Is just like another day in the life for this woman? I
Gary Jenkins (00:38:27):
Said, you know, you're just like, uh, what do I do now? Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:31):
You know? Uh, frozen. I
Gary Jenkins (00:38:32):
D - I, you know, God just gives you the wisdom
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:36):
Sometimes -
Gary Jenkins (00:38:36):
Yeah. To, to just relax. And, and I just got out and I said, Ms. Jones, you gotta put that gun up rightnow. Yeah. Take it in the house. Oh, okay officer. Okay, officer. I'm like, woo. Okay,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:47):
Mr. Jenkins. She
Gary Jenkins (00:38:48):
Runs back into the house and I go down and start talking to this guy and he's, of course, he's cursing and yelling -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:53):
Sure.
Page 28 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:38:54):
About something his kids has done and, or something. I don't know, even know what it was. <laugh> Finally, I wanted to get off. I didn't wanna arrest anybody, especially her when she should have been arrested.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:04):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:39:05):
I said, "You just go back in the house and I don't ever wanna come back out here again in a call like this. You guys just gotta figure this out. Go back up to her and the postman's out has come by. He's got this daughter who's still out in the street with this butcher knife in his hand." Geez. Sparring around screaming at one of these other kids down the street and they're several feet apart. The postman's trying to like corral her and I get with him and we start, you know, kinda corralling her and she doesn't really wanna stick us it seemed like. And finally we calm her down and get her inside. <laugh> Josh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:37):
You're like, "I can laugh about it now, but at the time,
Gary Jenkins (00:39:41):
Yeah.e
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:42):
Sigh of relief. I
Gary Jenkins (00:39:43):
Jumped back in my car and drove to the station, got off, went home, never thought about it again.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:47):
No kidding.
Gary Jenkins (00:39:48):
And I never got a call back there again that I know of. I don't know what happened. Oh
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:52):
My gosh. That's so funny. So when you look back at when you were working in Kansas City as part of that versus like what Kansas City looks like today, how different is Kansas City today in terms of. I mean, you mentioned that the, allegedly that the mafia is not around anymore. <laugh> I don't really know. Is there like an ending point to tell us that that kind of, you know, came to an end or, or what's, what's the story there?
Gary Jenkins (00:40:14):
Oh, you know, you can look down there in the north end and it's, it's all gentrified Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:19):
Page 29 of 84
Pretty much
Gary Jenkins (00:40:19):
Down there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:20):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:40:20):
A lot of nice apartments. There's still a few old families that are, you know, the elderly people are down there. N - I don't think hardly any of the young people, few of them are down there, but, but mostly they're not. The, the social club has been boarded up for quite a while, the trap at 5th and Truce.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:37):
Okay. And
Gary Jenkins (00:40:38):
It's, it's still boarded up. And they, um, they had another club up the street there that the younger guys went to and it's made into a nice little house with gardens and everything around it and flowers - Yeah. And all that. And, and so that all changed. You know, the, the mob, and they didn't really. They'd already, a lot of the older guys had already moved north of the river primarily. Okay. A- and so as they all went to jail after the, the skimming from Las Vegas trials, which was about 1980 -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:10):
Yeah, I definitely had that to talk about. Yeah. Tell
Gary Jenkins (00:41:12):
Me more about that. Then, then the, the older bosses went to jail for a long time.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:16):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (00:41:17):
And the younger guys, you know, they kinda moved up, but, but they also lost any influence over the Teamsters Union, which, uh, for a mob family, you have to have a, a source of political power.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:30):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:41:31):
And they lost the, the government out, out of this whole skimming investigation, which was Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Las Vegas.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:43):
Mm-hmm.
Page 30 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:41:43):
You know, they caught, uh, these different people. Our local Teamster boss, Roy Lee Williams, finally admitted that he was under the control of Nick Savella. Mm-hmm. These different bosses of local Teamsters had been influencing these loans to people to buy casinos. Mm-hmm. And then the mob was the, was the instigator of those, that connection, and then they were getting skim money, cash money back. Mm-hmm. Well, that all fell out of that team, out of that skim investigation of what the movie casinos based on.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:42:18):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:42:19):
That, they, the government took over the te - International Teamsters Union under a trusteeship and then made them, kicked everybody out and made them have new elections and first appointed local, uh, we had a local banker that was appointed the trustee of the Teamsters Union here for a while. Matter of fact, that guy, Jimmy Duarte, I mentioned earlier, we followed him one day and he went down to see that local banker. I can't remember his name now. He went down to see him. <laugh> Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:42:43):
He
Gary Jenkins (00:42:43):
Was, he was, Jimmy was slick. He was, he was a good talker and, and he was trying to kind of worm his way back in.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:42:49):
He's such a good mob name too. Yeah. It just feels like a classic mob name.
Gary Jenkins (00:42:54):
<laugh> But, and so they lost all that political power.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:42:57):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (00:42:59):
And they lost, you know, they were kind of embarrassed that out of Kansas City, you know, on a national basis, out of Kansas City, that's where this whole thing started that, that brought everybody down. And one of the big linchpins that, uh, pieces of evidence that brought him down was at our underboss's house, Tuffy DeLuna, because he had made notes. And this is mentioned in the movie Casino - Yeah. About what are you gonna, you gonna file taxes? Why are you keeping notes? Well, he was, now keep books. You know, he was writing down and went out to Las Vegas $150. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:31):
Came
Gary Jenkins (00:43:31):
Page 31 of 84
Back $150. Sandy's wife went out $150 and parking, you know, $5. And, and he'd kept stuff and dates of meetings and things like that. And so, uh, they could make a lot of sense out of the wiretaps from his notes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:45):
Yeah. And,
Gary Jenkins (00:43:46):
And really help with the case. And that was a big embarrassment. So they kinda had to, to pull back. And the younger guys, there's several of them still out there and, you know, he's still got, uh, connecting, uh, burglars and b- boosters, shoplifters and everything with retail outlets. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:07):
Still
Gary Jenkins (00:44:07):
Got the fencing. Okay. Still
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:08):
This
Gary Jenkins (00:44:08):
Big operation. They were fencing records like crazy. And then Tiger Carterello who had Tigers Records, a lot of your listeners of a certain age will, everybody's bought a re- record at Tigers Records, haven't you? <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:19):
Yeah. I was gonna say, those names that people were, will recognize them - Oh yeah. Can't miss a
Gary Jenkins (00:44:23):
Tiger
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:24):
Either. And
Gary Jenkins (00:44:24):
He, he messed up and he got, and somebody killed him and, and he, uh, uh, his buddy Felix Farina was kind of a next in line along with Tiger and s - and they killed him. And, you know, as the older guys were dying off and the younger guys, they just couldn't seem to move on in. And, and the other cities in the Midwest were having their own problems and - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:47):
And it
Gary Jenkins (00:44:47):
Page 32 of 84
Just, you know, and then people, their kids are not getting into the family business either for the most part. Their kids are like one of the Sabellas really got into real estate and buying real estate and own some buy here, pay here car dealerships. Well, I say owns, he's, I think he's invested in them, shall we say, but - Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:05):
That
Gary Jenkins (00:45:06):
Kind of a thing, you know, in real estate and, and buying rental properties and, and that kind of stuff. Yeah. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:11):
Their
Gary Jenkins (00:45:11):
Kids are going to law school and med school and starting their own, you know, starting regular businesses and - Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:17):
So moving forward, moving on.
Gary Jenkins (00:45:19):
And, and kind of moving out of that so there's not this, this influx of new blood - Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:25):
That makes sense. All the time. So, okay. So in preparation for, um, us talking today, I actually turned on Casino yesterday. So the movie Casino - Yeah. Is with, um, Robert De Niro, Joe Pesci, Sharon Stone. Obviously many people have seen it. And if not, they can definitely watch it. Um, but, you know, obviously me wanting to talk to you, there's so much I don't know. I don't know the history of the Savella family. Mm-hmm. Um, and so tell us a little bit more about that because, um, there's a couple things that go. So here's one thing that I found. Savella, Nick, Savella? Nick
Gary Jenkins (00:45:55):
Is the boss. Was
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:56):
Imprisoned on gambling charges for betting on the 1970 Super Bowl. Mm-hmm. Played between the Minnesota Vikings and the Kansas City Chiefs. Around this time, there was a war in the family over control of the River Key Entertainment District in which three buildings were bombed and several gangsters were killed. Mm-hmm. Can you talk about that? Sure.
Gary Jenkins (00:46:11):
Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:46:12):
Page 33 of 84
And then the whole Vegas connection. I have to train you out about
Gary Jenkins (00:46:14):
That one, but. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:46:15):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (00:46:17):
So this has nothing to do with the Spiro War.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:46:19):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (00:46:20):
The. Nick, in, in 1970, he called down to the social club, The Trap, and talked to this guy named Tusa uh, Frank Tusa, who was kind of his controller over all the sports gambling action. There was way too much money down on the Chiefs and not enough in Kansas City and their book, the Kansas City book, sports book on the Vikings. So they need to lay off 42,000. They were $42,000 out of whack. See, gamblers, professional gamblers like this, people running sports book, they don't gamble. They don't bet on a game. They take an equal amount of bets on either side and then they take 10% of each losing bet. That's called the big. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:01):
So
Gary Jenkins (00:47:01):
They did not wanna gamble. They did not want books out of balance. They gotta figure out how to lay off the, the $42,000 so they're back in balance. The bureau is on the wiretap of the trap at that time and they pick him up and that was enough to show that he had control over this and, and they convicted him.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:18):
This is the house being tapped, the bu - the house being bugged? Is that part of the story? No's separate? This
Gary Jenkins (00:47:23):
Of the, that was actually one of the first, uh, wiretaps, legal wiretaps in Kansas City. Okay. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:30):
Think
Gary Jenkins (00:47:30):
Maybe the second one, but, uh, this was the first one that really m- meant anything. Okay. Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:35):
Page 34 of 84
'Cause
Gary Jenkins (00:47:35):
They had just passed the law in 1968, the re - um, uh, RICO law and the, uh, organized crime control bill out in Washington and that it's not il - it was not legal. It wasn't illegal, but it wasn't legal before. And then 1968 made it legal, illegal unless you got a court order. So this is one of
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:53):
The
Gary Jenkins (00:47:53):
First court ordered wiretaps. So they got Nick Sabella. He, he ends up going to jail after he fights it for several years. This Riverkey thing has developed up - uh-huh. Where it's just, it's rocking and rolling. And, and it has nothing to do with the mob. Nothing at all. Except a lot of mob guys were being booted out of their bars down where the Marriott Hotel is on 12th Street between Central and Wyandotte.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:16):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (00:48:17):
They're, they're building that hotel and so they've got a lot of redevelopment money ga - paid to them for these crappy old bars where like one guy described it as where 50-year-old whores buy watered down, get watered down drinks from truck drivers and, and so it's that kind of seedy environment. Yeah, yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:34):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:48:34):
So they wanted to come down there and build nice places down in River Key. Well, there was one guy who was a son of a, a mob soldier, if you will, a guy named Freddie Bonadonna, and he knew the history. He knew this, this area was family oriented. It was young singles working, single people oriented coming in, kind of the first singles bars in Kansas City. Okay. You
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:57):
Never
Gary Jenkins (00:48:57):
Even heard of that before. And - Is
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:59):
This the river market or - This is.
Gary Jenkins (00:49:01):
Or
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:01):
Page 35 of 84
Near Marriott, closer to Mar - where Marriott is? No, this
Gary Jenkins (00:49:04):
Is on Delaware, right a block west of the city market. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:07):
That's
Gary Jenkins (00:49:08):
Where it was being developed. Got it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:09):
Perfect. Those
Gary Jenkins (00:49:10):
Were these old buildings, used to be city buildings.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:12):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:49:13):
A- and old brick buildings, cool buildings. They were - It's where
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:16):
The street car is today. Yeah. Right? Yeah,
Gary Jenkins (00:49:18):
Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:18):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:49:19):
And so, you know, they were leaving exposed brick walls. Nobody had ever done that before. Mm-hmm. They were, you know, having, uh, hardwood floors and real high ceilings and kind of the, the, uh, loft atmosphere. Yeah. And nobody'd ever done that before, and it was cool. Yeah. And people my age, uh, baby boomers, were flogging down there. And we were flogging down there. <laugh> And man, it was nothing like, you know, being in your mid - 20s and single and be down the river key a night. It was hopping and everybody, this is, you know, this is, uh, this is, uh, uh, post birth, birth control and pre - AIDS, so <laugh>. There you go.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:50):
I hope
Gary Jenkins (00:49:51):
Page 36 of 84
That's not
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:51):
Too racy for your client down there. Not at all. That puts it in perspective. Yeah, that's good to know.
Gary Jenkins (00:49:55):
So it was, it was cool. It was fun. Yeah. A- and these other family businesses during the day, there was, uh, uh, jewelry stores and, and different kind of craft markets and, and boutique clothing stores down there - Yeah. That were different from the plaza. The plaza was for those old white people out in the, out in the silk stocking area. Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:50:15):
This
Gary Jenkins (00:50:16):
Was for us young people. Mm-hmm. And these young families, they were coming down there and they put on events and, and they had a, a tour around there and a double decker bus. A guy bought a double decker bus. A guy named Marion Trizzolo had really started this. It was his idea. And he started doing these buildings, you know, primarily because he liked the old architecture. Like
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:50:35):
The Trazolo that we know, that name today? Right.
Gary Jenkins (00:50:37):
It's a Trazolo, um, um - Communications. Communications. Yeah. And John Trozolo is his son who has a, a, a studio about like this one over in the, uh, crossroads area.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:50:47):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (00:50:48):
And so, uh, he's really trying to get this going, but it's getting bigger and bigger. And it's kinda getting out of his control or out of his ability as an individual to keep going and expand and do things. And, you know, he's got rents coming in, but it's, you know, you have to keep growing, it seems like. And, uh, and nobody will loan him any money that, at that time, the old, you know, state old banks, they're not gonna loan any money to anything like this because this is the first thing, this is long before the crossroads. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:51:17):
Yeah. This is the
Gary Jenkins (00:51:18):
First time this has ever happened to revitalize us in the center part of the city. Yep. And he wasn't getting any help. And, and he finally sold out to some guy out of New Orleans who was like, um, kind of a non, kind of a caretaker, non-involved owner.
Page 37 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:51:34):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:51:35):
And just had a lot of money and. But these mob guys, they had a lot of money and they wanted to move in down there. And Freddy Bonadonna, whose dad was a guy, worked under a guy named Willie the Rat, and he was a career burglar. And Freddy would say, you know, his dad was a career criminal basically. Um, you know, Freddy was, uh, acing their, uh, torpedoing their liquor con - their liquor licenses. Mm hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:02):
He
Gary Jenkins (00:52:02):
Had a connection to a city councilman named Bob Hernandez who was then going to s - liquor control and say, "Hey, this isn't the real owner. This is who really is applying for this license. They just put a name down there and this is somebody's, you know, sister or cousin or just some other name." Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:17):
And,
Gary Jenkins (00:52:17):
But this is who's gonna own it and run it, and these are all mom guys. And so he's, he's torpedoing those behind the guy's backs. And, and this one guy, Willie Camisano, was under Sabella in the hierarchy of things,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:31):
But has
Gary Jenkins (00:52:31):
His own crew. And Freddy's dad was in that crew. And a lot of those 12 straight strip bars, including, uh, Willie's brother, Joe, were wanting to move down. And Willie got David, Freddy's dad, and said, you know, he's gotta help these guys. He can't hinder these guys. And he said, David went to Freddy and Freddie says, "You know, I'm not gonna do it." He said, "They're gonna ruin this area and they're gonna ruin this neighborhood." He went back, and the story from the family is that David went back to him and Willie says, "You know, he could get hurt." And David says, "You know, if you're gonna hurt my boy, you're gonna have to go through me." You know, it wasn't about two weeks later, David's dead. Oh boy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:11):
Yep.
Gary Jenkins (00:53:12):
Saw
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:12):
That coming. Trunk
Page 38 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:53:13):
Of his car.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:14):
Oh. Uh,
Gary Jenkins (00:53:15):
And the last person he was seen with was Willie Camisano. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:17):
Okay. Got it. Okay. So Nick Savella, you, did you interact with him? No? I
Gary Jenkins (00:53:24):
Did not. He was, Nick was an interesting guy. He, he, he was, he remained above the Hoy Ploy. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:31):
He
Gary Jenkins (00:53:31):
Remained above it all. You would see him with his driver, Pete Tambrell, coming down the city market. Maybe you'd see him talking to somebody there, but you, he was never out in the joints. He was never anywhere. And, and I know the couple FBI agents that, that did make an effort to go talk to him, he wouldn't even talk to them. Okay. He, he wouldn't even, he, he, he wouldn't even talk. He would, he wouldn't even really respond to them.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:54):
Interesting. He
Gary Jenkins (00:53:55):
Refused to even respond to them. Huh. Remember this one FBI agent? He was, he was actually originally from Sicily as a little kid. So he'd get a guy in a great big cigar and he, and so he'd walk up trying to talk to Nick down at the market and, and Nick won't talk to him. So, uh, he just takes his cigar and takes a big drag on and just blows it right in his face. <laugh> Nice.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:13):
Sounds like a perfect movie scene, right? Yeah. You see that happening for sure. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. So what are - So I
Gary Jenkins (00:54:18):
Never react, interact with him at all. Nobody
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:21):
Really did
Gary Jenkins (00:54:21):
Page 39 of 84
Except
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:22):
His
Gary Jenkins (00:54:22):
People. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:22):
Yeah. What, did you say some of the names of some of like, who were some of the mob members that you interacted with that names that we might, Kansas Citians might know? Or maybe they don't know. Maybe they're names that - Well, I mean,
Gary Jenkins (00:54:34):
I followed all of them. <laugh> For
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:35):
People who loved like this - But, but actually
Gary Jenkins (00:54:37):
Talking to them is a different thing. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:39):
'Cause
Gary Jenkins (00:54:39):
What - I'm sure. Our role in this in the intelligence unit was to follow these guys. Yeah. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:44):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:54:44):
See where they went and who they met with, what businesses they were interested in and came in and out of and that kind of thing. So we stayed in the background. Okay. Now I did talk to, uh, Tuffy DeLuna, uh, Carl is his real first name, Tuffy DeLuna, who is, whose sister is married to Tony Ripesabella, who is, uh, Cork Savella's daughter. It's, it's kinda hard. And like, there was Nick who'd had - Yeah, we
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:06):
Need like a whole family tree. Right. There was
Gary Jenkins (00:55:08):
Nick who had no children.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:09):
Okay. A lot
Page 40 of 84
Gary Jenkins (00:55:10):
Of these, there's people out there that say, "Oh, I'm Nick's grandson. I talked to someone," you know, no. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:15):
Nick,
Gary Jenkins (00:55:15):
Who had no children, Carl who had one, who then had, uh, uh, Carl Sabella or Cork, who then had Anthony or Tony Ripesavella, who then had a bunch of kids. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:27):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:55:27):
So those are all the, the underlings and - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:30):
You
Gary Jenkins (00:55:31):
Know, I don't really talk to any of the Savellas. I talked to Tuffy. I was, went with the FBI when we served a search warrant on his house - uh-huh. And when they took down the whole skim investigation and found the notes. Well, I went in with him and I talked to him off and on a little bit that night. He's a really nice guy. I'll never forget the agent that was running the search warrant, he knew, uh, then known him for years, because agents will go out and talk to him. Okay. Face to face. Yeah. 'Cause
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:58):
They're not
Gary Jenkins (00:55:58):
Trying to follow him around and, and they're
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:00):
Trying to make cases. That helps me understand more of your unit. My
Gary Jenkins (00:56:04):
Role was just to follow them around and try to find people who were close to them and talk to them or who knew something. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:09):
Maybe the better question is following them around, like how do you describe maybe how dangerous. I think you mentioned before, like a lot, these were very dangerous individuals. Yeah. Well, some of
Gary Jenkins (00:56:19):
Page 41 of 84
Them were, some of them weren't. But, you know, they -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:20):
How do you describe the ones that were and kind of watching them, following them, what you were seeing? Oh,
Gary Jenkins (00:56:24):
You know, they, they were really cagey, you know? Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:27):
I mean,
Gary Jenkins (00:56:27):
It just was really hard to follow them. More like
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:30):
You,
Gary Jenkins (00:56:30):
You kind of had to know their spots that they probably would go to and you'd pick them up somewhere and you'd follow them for a while.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:36):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (00:56:37):
And, and there was a couple of them that were a little bit younger, but they were more dangerous than these older guys, I would say. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:44):
Uh,
Gary Jenkins (00:56:44):
They were, uh, probably a little more afraid. And then when somebody's afraid, that's when they become dangerous. It's not that they're - Yeah. They're, these are more like regular human beings. These aren't like - uh-huh. One guy that I interviewed that s - uh, Carl Sperro got out of prison. He was like a psychopath. I interviewed him in a jail after he got arrested trying to rob a drug house. Definitely
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:04):
Need to hear about that. He
Gary Jenkins (00:57:05):
Was like a psychopath. This is the scariest man I ever met, but that was, you know. But these mob guys, they were more like guys like me. Yeah.
Page 42 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:13):
They were
Gary Jenkins (00:57:13):
My age. A lot of them were a little bit older, but, you know, they had wives and families and lived down the suburbs and went to their kids' ball games over at St. Pius and - Just
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:22):
Blending in with society. Yeah,
Gary Jenkins (00:57:24):
Exactly. And, and so, you know, you'd follow them around and, and they were, you know, just watch and see what they did. I, I, we had a couple of younger guys that were part of the hit team that, that was trying to get the Spero Brothers. And I, I know, uh, my, my friend, Bobby Arnold, he would start following one
of those guys one night and they were on edge because it, it was really. Sperrows, we knew Spiros had this bomb. They were trying to plan on them and the, the Savella family, they were trying to kill the other two Sparrow brothers. A- and Bobby started following this guy and then he lost him. The guy made a quick dido and turned. So Bobby just went around the block and came back and, and he just figured, you know, he just, you just kinda. And when you lose somebody, you just kinda let them go.
(00:58:12):
Mm-hmm. And then you go back and just kinda sit and see the last place you lo - saw him and see what happens. And many times, all of a sudden they'll pop back up. Got
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:21):
It. So
Gary Jenkins (00:58:22):
Bobby's cruising back down this one street and it's a one way street and he's going the right way. Well, there's a car parked down there going the wrong way on the one way street. And so he just, he, you know, he's committed now going down that street. And he gets by that car. You naturally go over and look in that car and there's that guy standing there sitting there with a gun - Yeah. Pointing
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:41):
Out the window
Gary Jenkins (00:58:41):
Because he thinks it's one of the Spiros probably trying to follow him and hit him. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:45):
And
Gary Jenkins (00:58:46):
Bobby just keeps on going and, and he went around the block and the guy was gone by then. And, and I had, I had three of them get behind me one time. We were, again, watching this place where Carl Sperro was sitting in this joint called the Virginian down at Admiral and Grant or Admiral and, uh, Forest, which is where there was boat and they shot up the Virginian one night and killed one of the Sparrow brothers.
Page 43 of 84
Carl was just sitting down there because they used to sit down there during this war in the front window with a license plate that said Sparrow on it out in front, just like taunting them because that's a, a, uh, Admiral Boulevard's a road that they went down a lot. Yeah. He would
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:22):
Just sit
Gary Jenkins (00:59:23):
There. So we sat around there waiting to see if anybody came in and, you know, they didn't, they didn't. And we're getting bored and we're just ganged up together during three cars and watching one road that would take if you would go by to the back of it, you would probably go down this road and, and all of a sudden we see one of the mob guys' cars go down that road. Oh, shoot. We jump on our, I mean, we, we,
we take off and we split up. We tried to find him. We can't find him. Mm-hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:51):
We
Gary Jenkins (00:59:51):
Settled back in and nothing, nothing, nothing. And Carl's still sitting there. So we kind of ganged back up again and, and, uh, as our sergeant used to say One grenade would get y'all spread out a little bit. <laugh> And so we see this car with three heads in it that we don't know. And it goes by the Virginian. And then it goes by it again like, uh-oh. So we split up again.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:14):
Yep. And
Gary Jenkins (01:00:15):
We're driving around trying to find this car, pick up a tag on it, see who's in it, if it's still around. As it turned out, this guy that had driven by Joe Braguzi, he had gone and he had called him and he said, "Hey, he's down there right now by himself." And the bureaus claims that there was a wiretap they had that they didn't listen to later. And Cork, they called Cork and Cork says, "Well, there any agents around?" They said, "No, I don't see you around at all." And they said, "Well, that means they're there. Be careful." <laugh> But they, they weren't too careful. And they came back around and they were going around again, but they were looking for any agents. They were being cautious. So I drive by the Virginia and I look up my rear view mirror and there they are behind me.
(01:00:54):
I'm like, oh, maybe see who they are. So I drive west toward, or east toward Paseo, Admiral Paseo, and I turn right south on Paseo and I go 8th Street and 9th Street and they're still behind me and we got a, a, a green light at, uh, whatever, I think it's maybe 10th and, and we keep going. And, and then they get over in the left lane as we get to 12th and Paseo. So we're both sitting there and I'm on my walkie-talkie. I got
it down my lap and I'm, hey, these guys are over here and it looks like Tuffy and Luna's in the passengers and, and I can hear one of the other guys, he's, I'm trying to get a uniform car over there now because, you know, we're dressed like this. Yeah. And then old used rental cars is what we've got.
(01:01:36):
So the only way we're gonna get them stopped is, you know, box them in or something but that can get dicey.
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(01:01:42):
And you know, we're just not set up, you know, we're all spread out and, and they're right next to me at the light and I kinda glance over as the light changed and they take a quick left and I see Tuffy DeLuna just looking over there at me and just kinda smiles. And I'm go - I'm committed to go straight and they
can't get over there and the uniform car, you can't, you can't get it there in time and they're just gone. So - Oh my gosh. There's no doubt in my mind that they came back and they
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:08):
Would've
Gary Jenkins (01:02:08):
Been guns in that car and mask and everything and we woulda had them nailed, but you know.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:12):
Yeah. I mean your stories, this - Missed
Gary Jenkins (01:02:14):
Opportunity.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:15):
Your family, um, get togethers must, must be really fun with like Grandpa Gary talking about all your stories. <laugh> M
Gary Jenkins (01:02:21):
Grandkids don't wanna hear about this. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:23):
I'm shocked. Okay wait, so Carl Spiro, is he the one you said was like a psychopath?
Gary Jenkins (01:02:28):
No, no. He, he got this psychopath named Leonard Crago out of jail.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:33):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (01:02:33):
My informant that I'd got out of that original surveillancemaround
(01:02:37):
That, uh, that, uh, used car lot where he was meeting these guys and they were talking about getting them, getting the ARAB. They called him the ARAB, getting the ARAB out of the penitentiary. And we found out that Spiro's cousin was on paper giving him a job at a meat market down in Springfield, Missouri, but he didn't go down there. He came right to Kansas City. And, and first thing he did, well, my guy told me, he said, you know, he's a scary man. He is really scary. That guy scares me more than any of these guys. All, uh, you know, all of them put together. Really? And you know, he's kind of this, you know, this
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vision for us. We just know about him and heard about him and we looked at his record. Yeah, he was down there for armed robbery and, you know, looked like I'm a bad dude.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:19):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:03:20):
But we don't know about him. Then all of a sudden, uh, a guy named, uh, Al Brandemeyer who has a small meat market. It's B&C Meat Company, Brandemeyer and Savella Meat Company. Cork Savella was partners with this guy in a wholesale small meat company. They used to get, you know, whole beads in and then cut it up and then sell it out to corner stores. And maybe neighbors might come in, but mainly out the corner stores.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:42):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:03:43):
Every neighborhood had a corner store that sold fresh meat back in those days.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:46):
Right.
Gary Jenkins (01:03:47):
Uh, and, and Al Brandenmeyer also was a bookie, so he had a lot of cash money and, and somebody showed up one morning when he opened up and it was this guy who had two guns and he robbed him and he put him in the trunk of his own car and then he drove the car off somewhere and then parked it. And then, and then he started shooting into the back of the trunk while this guy was in the back of the trunk behind a spare tire that happened to be loose. <laugh> And so he didn't hit him. And the guy reported that this, whoever was shooting said, "This is the A-Rab and you tell Nick Sabella that I'm back in town." <laugh> Oh
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:04:20):
My gosh. Of course
Gary Jenkins (01:04:21):
We knew who the A-Rab was. Sounds
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:04:22):
Like such a movie line, right? Oh man. What we know of all this. I can't believe
Gary Jenkins (01:04:25):
He said, but I read it myself in the police report. And so now, you know, they know who the A-Rab is. Al Brandameyer is probably not going to testify on this deal, more than likely. Mm. Nick Sabella probably won't let him testify, but, you know, they act as if and they, you know, start looking for, uh, Leonard, uh, Crago, who is hard to find. Uh, he's, you know, who knows where he's living. He's living with some woman or, you know, uh, moving from one place to the other because he's just one of those kinds of guys.
Page 46 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:04:55):
Yeah. And
Gary Jenkins (01:04:56):
Then he, he shows up one night robbing a, a east side, uh, drug house over northeast and this drug own, drug house was Johnny Jewel was his name, real famous drug dealer over there. And one of his teenage kids slips out of the house and calls the police and they arrest him there. And so they, they, they have him on the Al Brandimeyer and they have him on Robin Jo- Johnny Jewel. Neither one of those guys are gonna testify. They're both criminals themselves, but they've got him, he's already in jail on this, uh, uh, he's out on parole on this armed robbery conviction. So they just put him back down and he ends up dying in the penitentiary and never
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:05:28):
Comes
Gary Jenkins (01:05:28):
Back out. Okay. But I went down to Jackson County Jail while he in between and while he was holding him on the parole violation and tried to talk to him and he was scary. I tell you what, I'll never forget. Start asking him some question and trying to get real pointed. It's something I knew that he, I knew he knew about.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:05:45):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:05:45):
He could seem just like, he was getting mad. He was just like swelling up like this and - Oh my
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:05:49):
Gosh.
Gary Jenkins (01:05:50):
"Oh God, oh shit." Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:05:52):
What do we do? What do I do? Do I run?
Gary Jenkins (01:05:54):
Do I say? And I'm just, I'm just like locked in this room, this office. It was like an office, but the guard just left us in there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:01):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:06:01):
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And then all of a sudden he just like, you can see he's like mine work. And then all of a sudden he just like does some little self smooth, soothing kind of things. Mm-hmm. And he just comes back down like this and - Oh wow. We continued on.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:13):
Too bad you don't have that on video for us to see. Oh
Gary Jenkins (01:06:15):
Man. And they wanted me to go back down. He went down to the penitentiary and wanted to take another run at him. I told my sergeant, I said, "I'm not doing it." So another guy went down and, but he -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:24):
We're like, this is the point I decide to retire now. <laugh>
Gary Jenkins (01:06:27):
I wasn't gonna go back and interact with that guy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:29):
No kidding. Okay. So let's talk about Kansas City Today and you being a podcast host. I wanna talk about obviously Gangland Wire - Yeah. Is a podcast that you've done for how long?
Gary Jenkins (01:06:39):
Oh, since 2015, about 11 years, 10 years. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:43):
I was one of the first - You're an OG podcaster.
Gary Jenkins (01:06:45):
I am. I was one, I was the first mafia podcaster in the - In the
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:49):
Country? In the country
Gary Jenkins (01:06:50):
As far
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:50):
As I can tell.
Gary Jenkins (01:06:51):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:52):
I
Page 48 of 84
Gary Jenkins (01:06:52):
Can't, I can't find any. There, there's other true crime podcasts that were around before, but really it was more like internet radio. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:58):
Yeah. I just
Gary Jenkins (01:06:59):
Talked to one of those guys who had me on just before I started my podcast on his more like internet radio show that was about the mob and about crime. He was back east or something.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:09):
Yeah. Yeah. But,
Gary Jenkins (01:07:09):
But it was like the, the actual podcast thing. Yes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:13):
I
Gary Jenkins (01:07:13):
Don't know. There was one other kid in New York City that had something at the time, but I, I, I don't know if I was first or he was. I claim I am. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:20):
Think you're first. <laugh> We're gonna, we're gonna go with that. Okay. So you're gonna continue that podcast, is that right? Yeah, I am. 'Cause you're gonna, we're gonna into, we will get into Murder Blueprint in a second. But tell us about Gangland Wire so people can go obviously listen to Gangland Wire crime stories, all the places you can hear it. Yeah. But tell us about like all the different people that you're interviewing, because this is not just Kansas City - Yeah. Specific. It is around the country. And so what I've basically gathered is that you will talk about, um, American Mafia, kind of across the board, these different cities - Yeah. Probably that you mentioned. Organized crime, gangsters, mob bosses, and the detectives who investigated them, which is so fun. So share more about that podcast, some of your favorite guests that you've had on, stories. And then obviously for people who are listening, I'll make sure that they know how to go follow and subscribe to that.
(01:08:03):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:08:04):
Well, you know, I mean, uh, you can get on any, any podcast app that's gonna be on there. Yeah. Um, and if it doesn't have the latest one on there, you've got one of those off-brand apps. I got complaints about that recently. <laugh> So I looked at just these off-brand apps that nobody ever heard
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:17):
About. I can imagine. Yeah.
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Gary Jenkins (01:08:18):
Like 99% of my stream go out to Spotify, Apple, and, uh, Spreaker, which is my host.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:23):
Okay. But
Gary Jenkins (01:08:24):
Mainly Spotify and, and Apple.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:26):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:08:27):
Um, so, you know, I first started this. I, you know, I started telling stories just like I'm doing here in my own life and career -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:35):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:08:36):
And local mob stuff. And, but you run out of that pretty quick when you're doing something once a week. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:41):
Sure. Yeah. So
Gary Jenkins (01:08:42):
I started finding, uh, people have written books and authors who have written books about this are really well versed in their subject.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:49):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:08:50):
And you start finding them. And the early days I just had to tape them on my phone. I got something called TapaCall and I just tape them on my phone and, and we didn't have AI to run the, uh, run the audio through to make it sound better. So -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:03):
I will say yes. AI is very helpful in this world for sure for many reasons.
Gary Jenkins (01:09:07):
Yeah. You really can clean up sound good. Even if they talking on their phone, you can make it sound good. So, you know, I started finding these different guys and I remember one of the first ones who had been a mob guy, Red Wamette, he's still around in the, uh, in the space. Uh, he does a show once in a
Page 50 of 84
while with a guy out in Las Vegas called Wednesday. They called it Re- Red Wednesdays or something like that. Anyhow, his name is Red Wamette. He was really interesting. He, he had, he had been, he had a porn store in Old Town in Chicago.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:38):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:09:39):
And the Chicago outfit, what they called the mob in Chicago was the outfit. A Chicago outfit guy named Frank Swish was the German. He was German. He was an associate, so he wasn't a made guy. But he was going around extorting money from these different porn stores. And Chicago does not allow anything like anything in the gray market area to happen unless they get a piece of that action. Okay.
(01:10:02):
And so he's wanting to extort money from Red and Red doesn't like it. He starts paying him a little bit, but Red had, uh, FBI agents will go into like some of these different mob bars and, and leave their business card, for example, on a bar for the bartender or somebody that, you know, had been talking to somebody, "Well, here's my business card." So he had grabbed one of them up one time and just hung onto it. And so he got tired of this Frank Swiss coming around wanting to, wanting him paying money. So he got hold of this agent and he agreed with the agent to, uh, in his office to put a microphone and a camera in his television, which was sitting in his office. And Red spent a lot of time in his office, which was up above the porn store and he had somebody else working downstairs.
(01:10:45):
So this Frank, the German Suisse would come in and, and he kind of liked Red and they'd just sit there and tell stories. And so he's, and this guy loved to brag about all the mob stuff they were doing. Of
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:55):
Course. Just,
Gary Jenkins (01:10:56):
You know, I like to talk about police stuff I did, you know. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:58):
Everybody wants to hear about it. Yeah. And
Gary Jenkins (01:11:00):
Everybody wants to hear about it. So they're, they're taping Frank Suisse for months, you know, during that time. So I, Red finally wrote a book. Um, God, that's something about that nobody would do anything about it. Like in Chicago at the time, the local authorities just wouldn't do anything about the mob.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:11:19):
The
Gary Jenkins (01:11:19):
Chicago was, is always had been pretty dicey. Yeah. They're not
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:11:23):
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Totally
Gary Jenkins (01:11:23):
Corrupt, everything, but, but especially at that time, they had the, the, uh, Cook County courts just wired. I mean, they could get anything fixed in Cook County. Mm-hmm. Matter of fact, Red told me about how they'd beat a murder conviction. They would, uh, the guy would ask for a judge bench trial, which tried by a ju - no jury, just a bench. It'd be a murder trial. They did this twice. I know of Tony Spilatro and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Harry Alaman, both of whom were big killers for the outfit. So they get a bench only, a bench trial, and then they have connections within the Cook County judicial system, which they can get the right judge put in as that judge, and then they can pay off that judge. And then all they gotta do is come up with a couple witnesses that was.
(01:12:10):
And the judge can say, "Well, I have some reasonable doubt." Mm-hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:13):
You
Gary Jenkins (01:12:13):
Gotta get, you know, beyond a reasonable doubt. And the judge can easily say, well, reasonable doubt and find him not guilty.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:18):
Yeah. And
Gary Jenkins (01:12:18):
So Red was, you know, was telling stuff like that too. So, you know, to start getting this real inside look, because I'd always had more of an outside look following people around.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:27):
Right. Yeah. And, and,
Gary Jenkins (01:12:28):
You know, reading, maybe reading FBI reports. Well, now I get to talk to people who actually lived this and, and knew about this firsthand.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:34):
Fascinating. You
Gary Jenkins (01:12:36):
Start fighting those guys in every city over the years. There's just more and more and more. I mean, there's a, there's such a flood of mob books right now from law enforcement and former mob guys and mob guys running podcasts and - Yeah. It's,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:47):
It's just
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Gary Jenkins (01:12:47):
Unbelievable.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:48):
They're following in your lead is what they're doing. They are. You led the way.
Gary Jenkins (01:12:51):
I know. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:52):
That - They, they
Gary Jenkins (01:12:52):
Give me no credit, especially the mob guys.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:55):
Yeah, right. Um, okay. So you do that and then that, how often do you release a new episode? Is that - I,
Gary Jenkins (01:13:01):
I do one every week. Every week.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:02):
Okay. Every once in a
Gary Jenkins (01:13:03):
While I do a bonus, but mainly it's one a week.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:05):
Okay. So for my audience who's primarily Kansas City, let's talk about Murder Blueprint. So this is a new podcast. Right. When did you launch it? Tell us more about that.
Gary Jenkins (01:13:14):
Uh, when's about a month ago, I think. Yeah, right at a month ago, six weeks. And I decided with AI, as you said - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:23):
I'm,
Gary Jenkins (01:13:23):
I'm able to edit so much faster. I'm able to get these transcripts that are really good, quick.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:28):
Mm-hmm.
Page 53 of 84
Gary Jenkins (01:13:29):
I'm able to, to do everything a lot faster, enhance the voices fast. And, and with that, I used to sometimes go into my Adobe Premiere Pro and try to enhance voices. And I had a, another voice thing from Adobe and I'd work on it a little bit. But it's real time consuming. Yes. Now
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:45):
I can do it
Gary Jenkins (01:13:45):
Just to, you know, just like that. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:47):
Much better. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:13:48):
Yeah. And, and so I'm, you know, I'm like doing, knocking these out pretty fast and I've got this. Actually, anymore, I've got this steady stream of authors, so I'm not researching stories myself so much anymore. I mean, for - They're
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:00):
Coming to you? The
Gary Jenkins (01:14:01):
Authors, yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:02):
I've got
Gary Jenkins (01:14:02):
Publicists of these book publicists all around the country that when they get a mob book - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:07):
They
Gary Jenkins (01:14:07):
Know that I'm a guy that, that has
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:09):
A
Gary Jenkins (01:14:10):
Decent following that they'll - Absolutely.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:11):
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They'll put
Gary Jenkins (01:14:12):
Them on. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:12):
Murder
Gary Jenkins (01:14:13):
Blueprint's not been so easy to get those authors on. They're a little bit -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:16):
Just because it's more, just this community. Yeah, I don't have, yeah, it's new
Gary Jenkins (01:14:19):
And I don't have the following. Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:20):
Uh,
Gary Jenkins (01:14:21):
But, you know, and so that, uh -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:24):
So you're, this is like Kansas City organized crime, serial killers. Is this more like modern day or is it also date back? What
Gary Jenkins (01:14:32):
I decided to do with Murder Blueprint was kind of not cons - not constrain myself.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:37):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:14:38):
But not really do mob stories that are really, you know, kind of within a certain - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:43):
Genre.
Gary Jenkins (01:14:44):
And a certain listening base -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:46):
Uh-huh.
Page 55 of 84
Gary Jenkins (01:14:47):
Is all men. Mm-hmm. And, uh, the, uh -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:50):
I noticed that even with my episode with Kenneth, it seemed predominantly male. Yeah, predominantly
Gary Jenkins (01:14:54):
Male.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:54):
That was commenting and engaging. Yeah. I,
Gary Jenkins (01:14:56):
Uh, experts say men like organized violence and women like disorganized violence. Oh, that's funny.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:01):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:15:02):
I don't know if there's anything new to that.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:03):
Which, to that point, um, many of my female friends, we are all listening to, we're watching the documentaries. Yeah. We'll, we'll talk about Lindsay Clancy, um, watching or listening to the true crime podcasts, which are hosted by women. Yeah. Yeah. Hosted by women
Gary Jenkins (01:15:17):
Too. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:18):
Yeah. It's really fascinating to see kind of different.
Gary Jenkins (01:15:20):
But here you have a real life detective that - Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:22):
Hosted
Gary Jenkins (01:15:22):
By and, you know, give you a little, my, my - Real
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:24):
Life detective. Exactly. My view on it. The difference. My
Page 56 of 84
Gary Jenkins (01:15:27):
Experience.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:27):
That is your differentiator, for sure. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:15:29):
Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:29):
Yeah. So what are some of the episodes that you've had so far? And this will come out probably, you know, in a month or two, but, um - Yeah. So
Gary Jenkins (01:15:35):
I started with Bob Brudella.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:36):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (01:15:37):
I already knew the guy who, uh, was in charge of that investigation. Good friend of mine was actually in the intelligence unit at one time. We worked together there and he didn't really wanna do it. <laugh> But I talked him into it. Yeah. And so we did a two-part series on the Brudella investigation, every step that they went through and, and really what they had to go through and that was not. They had him. Can
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:00):
You, for those people who don't know who that is - Oh,
Gary Jenkins (01:16:02):
Good point. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:03):
Bob
Gary Jenkins (01:16:03):
Bardella was a man who had a, uh, a shop in the flea market. It was like a, a knick-knack curio shop in the flea market in Westport and, uh, Southwest Trafficway where the, uh - uh-huh. The flea market burger place is. West, yes,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:17):
Westport. And he lived
Gary Jenkins (01:16:19):
Over in Hyde Park, South Hyde Park. And he was just a real eclectic character. Everybody liked him. He was a block captain and he went to all the neighborhood picnics and everybody kinda liked him and kinda
Page 57 of 84
strange guy, weird guy. And he'd had these young guys who would be working for him. Anytime you see an older man like that and he's got these 19, 18, 17 year old boys around him, you know, you just gotta know what's going on.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:43):
That reminds me of, uh, what's, um, Gacy, Chicago.
Gary Jenkins (01:16:47):
John
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:47):
Wayne,
Gary Jenkins (01:16:48):
Just like John Wayne Gay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:48):
Just like him.
Gary Jenkins (01:16:49):
Just like John Wayne Gacy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:50):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:16:51):
And he'd kinda get 'em in his, uh, kinda in his domain, if you will, doing drugs with him and drinking, partying a little bit and - uh-huh. Doing stuff with him. And, and then he would turn on 'em and -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:02):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (01:17:03):
And he'd capture 'em up and, and he'd put 'em in his basement and try to keep 'em alive with different drugs and give 'em drugs and, and torture 'em and keep a torture log. And, and for days, the last one was like, I think Troy said it was like 43 days he kept this kid alive. He said this kid, when he first had a picture of him before he went in, he was like, you know, real fit and - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:23):
Said
Gary Jenkins (01:17:24):
He looked like a swimmer, real broad shoulder. And when they got that, that last picture that Brudella took of him before he died, he was just like nothing but skin and bones. He still looked like a concentration camp survivor. Yeah.
Page 58 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:35):
Uh,
Gary Jenkins (01:17:35):
I mean, it was horrid. It was horrid. So, you know, one guy escaped and that's how they caught Brudella. It wasn't any great police work. Guy, uh, burnt through his bonds while Brudella was out and he jumped out of the second floor window and ran across the street and they called the district police. And when Brudella got home, they arrested him, got a search warrant, started - uh-huh. Found these pictures of all these kids that he'd been tortured and found his torture law. So it wasn't any great sleuthing, if you will.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:02):
No, but the story is so intense, like right in, in our backyard. Yeah, exactly. And this is what timeframe? What year?
Gary Jenkins (01:18:07):
Oh, God. Uh, it was the, uh, 80- 80s. It was the, uh, KU, uh, when they won, when they won the Final Four, it was that, uh, that evening when they were getting ready to play Oklahoma, because Troy was from Oklahoma and he was a big fan of
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:22):
OU. Okay.
Gary Jenkins (01:18:23):
So it was like eight, I wanna say 80 -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:26):
Somewhere in there though.
Gary Jenkins (01:18:27):
Four, 85 maybe.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:29):
Mm-hmm. So somebody escaped. So
Gary Jenkins (01:18:31):
Some- somebody escapes with a dog collar on and a chain on him. He runs naked and he runs across the street. District guys get there and they do the search warrant. They find all this evidence.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:41):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:18:42):
But now they've got all these Polaroid pictures of, it looked like, uh, se - I think in the end it was seven or eight different young men that they need to find out who they are. Are they still alive? Mm-hmm. Well, none of them were still alive in the end, but they - Right.
Page 59 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:56):
He
Gary Jenkins (01:18:57):
Has this whole squad that are out, you know, showing pic - showing pictures and, and going to the shel shelters and, and going to the areas where these kids, there's a certain area and these kids, we call them, um, uh, fruit hustlers and, and the guys that go around there are chicken hawks. You may not wanna put
that in there. I don't know, but <laugh> uh, chicken hawks. And, and so they, you know, in that subculture, there's this subculture, these young guys that are on the streets and these older men will drive around and pick them up. I mean, that's, you know. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:27):
Uh,
Gary Jenkins (01:19:27):
And, and so they, we'd go out and, and I, I was part of that. We'd go out and just talk to these kids and, and try to find out who was doing that, you know, besides Berdella also, and then try to identify these kids. And I found three or four other guys, matter of fact, the guy that owned the grocery store and the
corner grocery store ran around the corner from him was one of them. Gosh. And, and so, you know, we, that's the story in the investigation of how they found
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:51):
That. And you were working during this time. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So you're a part of this. You're not even just doing the episode today. Oh yeah. No.
Gary Jenkins (01:19:57):
You
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:57):
Were a part of it. I was part of it
Gary Jenkins (01:19:59):
Going out and -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:59):
Which is wild. And
Gary Jenkins (01:20:00):
Trying to help locate these boys. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:02):
Okay. So that's kind of like a good teaser as to when a, what kind of episodes that - Oh, yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:20:07):
We'll
Page 60 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:07):
Have for this. And,
Gary Jenkins (01:20:08):
And the, and the guy who is my main guest was in charge of that investigation.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:13):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (01:20:13):
He has a lot of great details. You know, like they had to, they had to take it out of headquarters and move it to an offsite because all these policemen were wanting to come in and look at the pictures. <laugh> Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:22):
They were
Gary Jenkins (01:20:22):
Just interrupting the investigation. Everybody was so curious about it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:26):
Of course. You
Gary Jenkins (01:20:27):
Know, got this, uh, this curiosity about - The
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:29):
Human curiosity. Or things. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:20:31):
So, you know, I got that one. Then I got, uh, the, I got the two guys that, uh, got Richard Grissom. Now, Richard Grissom was a guy who had a painting company and had a lot of contracts with, uh, apartment complexes over in Johnson County, mainly in, in one down in Lawrence, because that's how they, they caught him down in Lawrence. And, and during this time, he's not really a suspect, but two, one, then two, and then three women, young women disappear.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:01):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:21:02):
And, you know, they're like, th- this investigation just started. He's not connected to these women disappearing. So I got the two guys that were involved with the Metro squad that they called up because it was in Kansas. So when you have a, a, a big investigation in a smaller town, smaller suburban area, they'll call a Metro Squad. We'll, we'll bring, Kansas City will send like 10 detectives and each squad, each, uh, surrounding jurisdiction will send a detective or two. Mm-hmm.
Page 61 of 84
(01:21:28):
And so these guys were assigned to it. One was from the next and one was from Kansas City. And they tell the story of hunting down Richard Grissom because they, they, uh, Lawrence policeman actually stumbled into him and caught him with a piece of evidence, a driver's license or credit card from one of these three girls who had disappeared. Mm-hmm. And so they all of a sudden they know, oh man, these three girls, exact same MO, exact same type, body type, facial type, hair type are missing and we can't find them anywhere. And this guy has got one of their credit cards. And then they, that credit card, they find him at a ATM or maybe a debit card. They find him at an ATM with her and she looks all haggard and everything. Mm-hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:11):
And
Gary Jenkins (01:22:11):
He's like keeping her for a period of time and then she's gone. And he just, he leaves the country or leaves town at that, all of a sudden. And, and they're, you know, got this whole metro squad going. They can't find him. They're building evidence. They find another crime that he committed down in Lee Summit in which they could link him to that. I don't remember exactly how. So these guys are telling all that and then tell about how they, they tricked him and, and caught him down in, uh, uh, Houston actually
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:38):
At the airport,
Gary Jenkins (01:22:38):
Which is kind of funny stories about that and how that happened. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:42):
And
Gary Jenkins (01:22:42):
FBI agent down there trying to be part of the arrest and they're trying to like not let him be part of the arrest, you know, that kind of thing. I'm sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:48):
The usual kind
Gary Jenkins (01:22:49):
Of jurisdictional friction that you see in the, the TV shows. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:52):
Well, it
Gary Jenkins (01:22:53):
Really happens, folks. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:54):
Page 62 of 84
That is true. That, those are facts. Okay. So you had talked about, um, well, one, I think there's a really tragic story of a woman who was just recently found in her backyard. Oh,
Gary Jenkins (01:23:04):
Yeah. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:04):
Don't know if you know much about that, but is that something that you would talk about in an episode or - Y- you know, I
Gary Jenkins (01:23:08):
Have - Do you wait until that case is solved? Katie Garcia. And so I have looked at that a little bit. I just, I haven't had time to really - Yeah. Look into it yet. Yeah. 'Cause I kinda got this Lindsay Clancy. I wanted to see what I wanna - Yeah wanna hear your take on that. I don't wanna stay just with old stuff. Of course. I wanna be able to at least comment or look at something that's kind of ongoing maybe even - Yeah. And
apply my, you know, a little bit of expertise I've got, but apply that a little bit. I think it'll be interesting for people.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:36):
100%. And I mean, I, like, I, I wanna ask, like, why do you think we're all so interested in true crime, right? Like what is this human curiosity that we all have? And it's becoming, you know, one of the highest paid podcasters, um, Ashley Flowers, I think maybe is her name. Yeah. She's one of the highest paid podcasters. It's a true crime podcast, right? Um, and then of course, we're streaming documentaries, docu-series all day long about, um, all of these stories. But yeah, I mean, what's, what are you thinking about this Lindsay Clancy case? Which is - You know, you may have one
Gary Jenkins (01:24:04):
Of the lowest paid podcasters sitting here. <laugh> I do get paid. Do
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:08):
Not care. Yeah. I
Gary Jenkins (01:24:09):
Do
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:09):
Get paid.
Gary Jenkins (01:24:10):
Let's
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:10):
Get you paid. We'll, we'll get everybody going and buying your movies and. But not like those
Gary Jenkins (01:24:14):
Big boys get paid. It's, it is amazing.
Page 63 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:16):
Oh, those are big dollars. Oh my God. Someday for us. We'll get there. Yeah. <laugh>
Gary Jenkins (01:24:20):
Part of my problem, I wasn't very good with SEO and early on. I didn't really pay any attention to that. Well,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:24):
You could have a whole team to do that for sure. Yeah. Really.
Gary Jenkins (01:24:27):
Anyhow, um, so, you know, I try to do something current. Yeah. And this
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:31):
Lindsay
Gary Jenkins (01:24:31):
Clancy thing came up and, and I've got a couple granddaughters that are all into this and - Absolutely.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:36):
Won't listen to
Gary Jenkins (01:24:36):
My podcast, but they listen to all Murder Junkies. They turn me on to Murder Junkies. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:40):
I've
Gary Jenkins (01:24:40):
Watched that one and -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:41):
Yeah. Or
Gary Jenkins (01:24:42):
Listened to it and, and a couple others. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:44):
This is clearly the biggest case we've had in a while - Yeah, it is. In this
Gary Jenkins (01:24:46):
Country to follow. Um, and so what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to, I got one of them that'll call me every once in a while and I can record a little bit her interpretations of it or her - Yeah. Her view of it trying to, to incorporate a, a female voice in, if you will.
Page 64 of 84
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:00):
That's the thing. The female voice is very important in this - Yeah, I think
Gary Jenkins (01:25:03):
So.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:03):
Situation. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:25:05):
And so, you know, I just, I look at it and, and report what's going on. And, and this is, you know, this is how I see this. It's such an interesting, interesting conflict - Yeah. Between the not guilty by reasons of, for reasons of insanity and the guilty.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:23):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:25:23):
And every, people have really strong opinions about this now. Primarily men just say, "Well, what about the children?" That's, that's the one argument I hear is, "What about the children?" The ar - other argument is, "Well, look at everything she did to, you know, to help with her mental illness. And she had this mental illness and she got, was not served very well. And so there was a lot of problems along those lines. And, and, you know, now that we've got a mistrial - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:50):
I
Gary Jenkins (01:25:50):
Have to wonder, will the prosecutor at 11 to one, 11 to one for not guilty and for reasons of insanity, will a prosecutor wanna risk all the resources, all the time it takes to go back and do a major trial like this? Yeah. I don't
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:03):
Even know what that entails. I find that's really interesting to learn about. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:26:06):
It's a lot. And, you know, maybe the prosecutor, maybe that prosecutor now goes on to private practice, so you gotta bring a new prosecutor in. I don't know if Lindsay Clancy, she's, she's gonna have enough money to hire this lawyer again. Uh, there's no doubt about it because she's got enough supporters. When you get a, a national case like this, just throw out, uh, the GoFundMe. The GoFundMe.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:27):
GoFundMe thing. Even though Luigi Mangione, he saw people - Yeah, exactly. I mean, that was outright. He obviously shot this man. Yeah. And people are funding. I mean, yeah. So many - Yeah. I mean.
Gary Jenkins (01:26:36):
Page 65 of 84
So
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:37):
Many things to observe. He's
Gary Jenkins (01:26:38):
Kind of the, uh, the Robin Hood of our day that killed Prince John, you know? <laugh> Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:43):
Yeah. I
Gary Jenkins (01:26:43):
Mean, it's, it's, it's biblical almost in a way, uh, uh, historical that you got somebody that goes after a hated character, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's why everybody loved John Gotti, you know? He, he throws it in the face - Yeah. Of the government. Yep. So everybody hates the government or scared of the government or doesn't wanna pay taxes unless John Gotti, he just, he gives them the finger all the time. That was
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:04):
Really pulling the curtain back to see how people responded to the Luigi case to see what they really thought really was.
Gary Jenkins (01:27:10):
Yeah. I know that, but I can forget about it. Yeah. And, and so then when I get back into this here and I see how many people are supporting her and then what, as I ask my friends and I ask, talk to people about it, I see this breakdown - Yeah. Of the difference. And, and, and so, and even I got this, uh, email I get called the flip side. It gives the blue side and the red side to whatever the, and red side is all, "What about the kids? What about the kids? What about the kids?" And the blue side's all about the, the, uh - The mental
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:41):
Health. Mental health. Yeah. How well was she served? The system, healthcare system. And,
Gary Jenkins (01:27:46):
And she, you know, by mental health. And there was a woman in Texas, um, oh God. Oh, I, I had that name. Anyway, there's a woman in Texas just last year that, and of Texas of all states, killed three children and they, uh, found her not guilty of reasons of insanity. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:01):
Yeah. And - So that's a real possibility. In this case, I mean, we, this is a whole other episode, of course, and there's so many people talking about it. But yeah, it's interesting to see how there's this story of this one, uh, juror who just is unwilling. Yeah. Like this is fascinating too to even just Lindsay Clancy aside to get into how this one individual - Yeah. Gets in that mindset, you know, too. So - You just, you
Gary Jenkins (01:28:20):
Page 66 of 84
Guys have to go watch 12 Angry Men. I, I always though it would be boring. It's just set in a jury room, go watch 12 Angry Men if you wanna see what goes on in the jury room. Yeah. I don't know
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:29):
If you've seen
Gary Jenkins (01:28:30):
Or not, Mindy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:31):
I don't. I'm gonna make a mental note of that, which brings me to anything else on that that you wanna talk about? Cause I wanna talk about the movies that you have pro - or the documentaries that you've produced. And obviously there's a lot we could get into so we can kinda go high level in terms of what those entail. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:28:45):
All of a sudden I've, I've lost it here, but <laugh> -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:47):
Sorry.That's all
Gary Jenkins (01:28:48):
Right. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:48):
Anything else on the Lindsay Clancy case that you wanted to mention or no? I don't think so.
Gary Jenkins (01:28:52):
Okay. I mean, sometimes I have to start talking to come up with that, but you know, just, just the thought process that will go into doing another retrial and the - uh-huh. Political pressures that will be brought to bear. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:04):
That's
Gary Jenkins (01:29:05):
What I find, uh, fascinating is the political pressures that are gonna be brought to bear on this one - Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:10):
Criminal
Gary Jenkins (01:29:10):
Case.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:11):
Page 67 of 84
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:29:12):
A- and it's, uh, it's, you know, just people are fascinated, endlessly fascinating.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:17):
Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So let's kinda, let's, uh, shout out the movies that you've produced. Kinda give us a rundown of what those are.
Gary Jenkins (01:29:26):
Okay. Actually, I did two before I got into the mob. I started with Civil War stuff. I did one - Yeah. That was a little bit controversial, I guess, was called Negroes to Hire. Mm-hmm. And it was about what slave life was like in the state of Missouri.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:38):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:29:39):
I had a lot of screenings back in the day in, in the library, and they were always filled with pe- people are, are, are fascinated by this. They wanna know, because what I did, I found local experts who were true experts in what li - day-to-day life was like, because I always wondered myself. Mm-hmm. And, and so I found those. Put it together
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:01):
And, and- And it's an award-winning documentary?
Gary Jenkins (01:30:03):
Well, I got, I got an award from the Jackson County Historical Society.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:06):
Congratulations.
Gary Jenkins (01:30:06):
Documentary of the year for them, so. Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:09):
That's great.
Gary Jenkins (01:30:10):
And then the next thing, the guy that I worked with a lot, uh, a black dude, he's long, Jimmy Johnson, he's deceased since then. God rest him. He was a great guy. He, he really was stern me to do this and I interviewed him in it because he had his own personal family story about his father escaping from a s slave farm up by the airport in Platte City -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:31):
Page 68 of 84
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (01:30:31):
And going across the river and going to Quindaro and then joining the military and fighting in the military. So it was a great story. We became friends and he kept saying, "You gotta do the underground railroad out here along the western frontier." And I said, "You know, I don't wanna do that." And finally I went over to Quindaro and I got inspired and I called him on my cell phone that day. I said, "Okay, Jimmy, let's do it." So - Yeah. Of course we put Jimmy's story back in that one. And then all the, the several different stories, many stories out of the Underground Railroad taking people north trying to get around to Chicago or up around, uh, Lake Michigan to, uh, Detroit to get, you know, away from slavery. And that's called, um, uh, Freedom Seekers. Mm-hmm.
(01:31:12):
Stories from the Western Underground Railroad. And I did a book kind of companion, two companion books to that. They're more like historical fiction and more like young adult or, or children almost. Uh, young adult would be better. Mm-hmm. Um, John Brown in The Last Train is a true story about John Brown taking people north out of, uh, Kansas to go around to Canada and the adventures he had on the way. And then the other one is the, uh, the Immortal 10. And that is about 10 guys in Lawrence who rode up to St. Joe and freed a guy that had been arrested for trying to take people north, an underground railroad conductor, if you will. Mm-hmm. A- and so that was a really cool story.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:31:52):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:31:54):
And then, then I went into the mob when I really started out wanting to tell, I guess, when that was a story of the skimming from Las Vegas and the River Key because - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:32:03):
That
Gary Jenkins (01:32:03):
Seems like they're disparate situations. Mm-hmm. And, and they were, but wasn't for one, maybe the other wouldn't have happened because had these problems we talked about in the River Key. We had these problems with the Savellas and the Spiro. We had these two separate mob wars going on. The bureau's going crazy. We got bomb, bombings and, uh, murders and, uh, hits and things like that going down and, uh, headlines. And, and so they had this one club called the Villa Capri over at Independence and Prospect and they put a bug in that. Mm-hmm. Because they have an informant that says he's had talk, dirty talk, if you will, build a probable cause for this hidden microphone. Criminal talk with the Savellas and with Tuffy DeLuna. So they put this microphone in there and they hear them, they don't hear them talking about murder. They hear them talking about, uh, Las Vegas.
(01:32:55):
They hear them talking about $25 million. They hear them say something about are we in on it with them? Something about the Teamsters, something about Lefty in Las Vegas, something about, uh, uh, Dan Brown, who's a lawyer for the Genius who, uh, who turns out that's the owner, the genius or Baldy, called him Baldy too, was the owner of the Stardust and Lefty was, uh, the Robert De Niro character,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:33:19):
Page 69 of 84
Lefty
Gary Jenkins (01:33:20):
Rosenthal was his real name. But, uh -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:33:22):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:33:22):
And so when they start searching out these terms, they find out, oh man. Then, you know, a week or two later, Tuffy says, "I gotta get to a phone." He's talking, he's, he's talking to somebody obviously about recent events in Las Vegas.m.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:33:36):
He
Gary Jenkins (01:33:36):
Says, "I gotta get to a phone." Well, there's a phone right there. Obviously it's not another phone. And that's where we come back into it and the intelligence, you know, they need intelligence. They needed surveillance help right away.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:33:46):
Yeah. So
Gary Jenkins (01:33:46):
We threw a full court press with about 10 agents and eight, eight or so of our guys, six of our guys and, and airplanes. They had two airplanes so they could be up. And one started running out of gas, they could have the other one already up. And we followed Tuffy the Luna for about a week, 10 days and finally find this set of payphones that he's going to down off of, uh, Front Street and I-435 at a, a hotel that was down there. And then just sit back. They put wire taps on those and then you just sit back and it was dynamite. It was gold for the FBI. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:34:20):
I bet. 'Cause he
Gary Jenkins (01:34:21):
Was talking to a guy at the Tropicana who was reporting everything that was going on in Las Vegas to Tuffy, who was then turning around and going to Nick Savella and telling him about it, which then you spin off to a, a hidden microphone where Tuffy is meeting with Nick Savella and they go into a lawyer's office downtown Quinn and People's. And the lawyer is, he was a white collar crime lawyer, uh, Quinn. And he'd been Nick's lawyer and some of these other guys' lawyers, but he was just their lawyer.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:34:48):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:34:49):
Page 70 of 84
He wasn't part of this. Uh, that's the way all these lawyers are. None of them are really part of it. They just their lawyer. But they would allow him, he would allow him to use his office because he was, if he didn't have a case going, he'd be out playing golf or off doing something else. He was not a lawyer that just tried to take every traffic ticket that came in - Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:05):
Like
Gary Jenkins (01:35:05):
I used to be, you know, any divorce -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:07):
Yeah, we haven't even talked about you being an attorney. <laugh>
Gary Jenkins (01:35:09):
Any divorce or traffic ticket. Yeah. I'm there. <laugh> You know, he just do, do the big cases. So they would go in and then they'd use the phone down there and, and they were, and Tuffy was reporting to Nick what this Joe Augusto was telling him -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:24):
Uh-huh.
Gary Jenkins (01:35:25):
About what was going on with Lefty in Las Vegas or the Robert De Niro character because he was stirring up a storm with the Gaming Control Commission.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:34):
Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:35:35):
And it, there's a lot more to it folks.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:37):
Yeah. A
Gary Jenkins (01:35:37):
Lot more to it. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:38):
But
Gary Jenkins (01:35:38):
That's, that's kind of the gist of it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:35:40):
Page 71 of 84
That's a whole conversation in and of itself.
Gary Jenkins (01:35:42):
Yeah. Oh man. It's, yeah, that is, because there's a whole lot more to it. There's two separate streams of skim. One was from the Trop- Tropicana, which was Nick's alone. Then there was a stream of Skim from the Stardust, the Hacienda, the Fremont, and another one. And that was going to Chicago. And that was then part of Chicago was coming down to Kansas City, going up to Milwaukee, going to Cleveland. Mm hmm. And the Stardust and the Tropicana was coming directly to Nick Savella who would then give a little bit to Chicago just to keep them happy. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:36:09):
Yeah. He knows
Gary Jenkins (01:36:10):
How to pay tribute and keep people happy. And Chicago is the big stick above us in
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:36:15):
Kansas
Gary Jenkins (01:36:15):
City. Yeah. So that's, that's what that first one's about. Then I had to go do the Spiro-Savella War.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:36:21):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:36:21):
Brothers Against Brothers, Spiro-Savella War and, and there's, that's, there's so many things going on in that. And we were really in the middle of that as a local police department. That was a local crime, local deal. This was not wiretaps out to Las Vegas. This was not even wiretaps. This was surveillance and, and informants and, and we had a guy that was actually in a sister squad, uh, who got an informant who was right next to one of the Spero brothers and, and exposed a bomb that he had. And we were able to take off Joe Sparrow with this, uh, remote control detonated bomb. One quick story out of that one.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:36:56):
Yeah. The
Gary Jenkins (01:36:56):
Informant told us, called up his control one day and he, he was scared to death. He said, "You won't believe this, man." He said, "Joe Sparrow called me down to Conrad Metz's joint down on Independence and Prospect, and it's right down the street from the Villa Capri where Tuffy goes all the time." And so Joe was all happy. He said, "Yeah, watch this." And so they stay there after the joint closes down and, and Tuffy's car's parked out in front. Well, sometime during this time, Tuffy has put this remote control detonated bomb underneath Tuffy's car. So they're kind of in the little alcove at the front of this, the joint. And Tuffy finally comes out and gets in his car and the guy hits the button and it won't go off. <laugh> Oh. So Tuffy drives off and leaves his sack, brown paper sack with a bomb in the street.
(01:37:44):
Page 72 of 84
Oh
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:37:44):
My gosh.
Gary Jenkins (01:37:45):
And, and Joe Spiro makes this other guy, Conrad one of his little underlings, Conrad Metz, makes him run over and get the sack and bring it back. I said, "Man, I would not go get that
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:37:53):
Sack." No, that's a hard no. That's a hard pass on that.
Gary Jenkins (01:37:56):
And the informant who was reporting everything every day to, to us, to the KCPD, and, and he said, "Yeah, he wants me to go test it with him, you know, sometime the next few days. And I don't know where that bomb is now. And, you know, we're frantically trying to put all this together because it's fast on moving and we don't know where the bomb is. You gotta, if you do something, you wanna get that bomb."
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:38:17):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:38:17):
"You gotta get that bomb off the streets."
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:38:20):
To say the least.
Gary Jenkins (01:38:21):
To say the least. And finally, uh, we served search warrants on his house and, and Conrad Metz's joint down there in Independence and Prospect and on a stolen car that Joe Sparrow had hidden in a parking lot in a truck, uh, company parking lot like he was an employee and it had the bomb in it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:38:40):
Oh my gosh. Man, you, I mean, your stories are endless and - <laugh>
Gary Jenkins (01:38:45):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:38:45):
So fascinating, truly.That's why people have to go listen to these stories that you have on your two podcasts. That's incredible.
Gary Jenkins (01:38:51):
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I, I did one more. Uh, I don't know why. I'm actually, I'm working on three now with a couple of guys, but -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:38:56):
Documentaries? Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:38:57):
Oh my gosh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:38:58):
I, I did - You're busy man.
Gary Jenkins (01:38:59):
I did one more, uh, called, uh, Ballot Theft, Burglary, Murder, and Coverup. And that was about the 1946 -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:39:05):
Oh, I missed that one. Okay.
Gary Jenkins (01:39:06):
Premier, uh, uh, primary election in Kansas City.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:39:09):
Okay.
Gary Jenkins (01:39:10):
And Harry Truman had a fifth district congressman named Roger Slaughter who was a Dixiecrat at the time. Mm. And Harry Truman was trying to make the Equal Opportunity Committee into a department, Equal Employment Opportunity. It was a, a, a committee that Roosevelt had formed during the war to encourage black people to come and work in the defense factories. Mm-hmm.
(01:39:36):
Well, this guy, Roger Slaughter, was a Dixiecrat and he did not wanna help Black people get a job. Hm. And Harry Truman got mad at him, so he got hold of, um, Tom Pendergast's nephew, Jim Pendergast, and said, "Hey, you know, he's still, he's running the or- organization now." And by 1946, he says, "Do not want this. I want this guy primaried." And, and so he gets hold of Charlie Benagio, who is a local mob guy who runs the north end of the first ward and maybe the second ward, then has a lot of political influence outside of Pendergast's influence and says, "We want this guy beat." So of course they get him beat. Then there's an investigation. And there was a lot of b- ballots out there that were raced over and remarked and a lot of problems. Mm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:40:23):
So
Gary Jenkins (01:40:23):
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They start, the, the Republicans win in 1946. So now we have a Republican prosecutor. We have a Republican Senator and Republican Congressman. So they're starting all these investigations and they, they get all the ballots and bring them down to Jackson County Courthouse as evidence. So the mob gets involved then and, and I mentioned Joe Comesano was part of it and Tom Highway Simone and, and I think maybe Black Louis Congliosi and, oh, another guy got to his colorful names. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:40:52):
And they
Gary Jenkins (01:40:52):
Go in and, and they, uh, have to, and they bring a, a, uh, uh, what they call a, um, a, a powder man, a guy who can blow safes. They bring in a guy who blows a safe and they get all the ballots, all the evidence and that disappears. So the case goes away because there is no more ballots or
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:41:09):
No more
Gary Jenkins (01:41:09):
Evidence. So that's, and then there's a woman who is connected to this guy who, uh, has blown the safe. So she knows. Mm-hmm. Uh, Bloody Mary, they call him Mary Bonomo. She knows what he did. And this is a big deal in all the headlines. So she has a husband up in Leavenworth. She wants to get him out. So she goes to the US Attorney and says, "You know, I can solve this case for you, but you gotta get my husband out of Leavenworth." <laugh> Oh
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:41:34):
My gosh. Well,
Gary Jenkins (01:41:35):
Somebody knows about that. She goes back to, she has a produce stand over at 9th and, and Brooklyn and she goes back to her produce stand and that evening somebody drives by and shoots her and kills her in a shotgun. So that's the, the, uh, uh - Bloody
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:41:48):
Mary?
Gary Jenkins (01:41:49):
Bloody Mary they called her. Wow.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:41:51):
She,
Gary Jenkins (01:41:51):
She was kind of a, a criminal herself that had like boosters and things that worked for her and then she
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:41:56):
Had
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Gary Jenkins (01:41:56):
Some fence stuff for them. So she was a professional criminal herself.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:41:59):
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And it's just reminding me of like all the stories you probably too have about Leavenworth that you and Kenneth can just like go down a whole rabbit trail without so. Um, okay. So, well, gosh, we could keep talking. <laugh> So as I tell a lot of people, we might have to do a 2.0 because there are so many amazing stories to tell. But, um, I do want to kind of start wrapping up and talk a little bit about, um, Kansas City today and then do some rapid fire questions with you. And what I mean by Kansas City today is where, like, where would you recommend people go who are really interested in like going and visiting a location that might be part of the mobhistory? Are there gangster tours that you recommend that are highly reputable? What are things that pe - can people do today, get out of their house, cool Kansas City experience that are tied to these stories?
Gary Jenkins (01:42:45):
Yeah. There is one gangster tour, and I've not taken it. It's kind of a tour that you'll have like an actor type guy. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:42:51):
And
Gary Jenkins (01:42:51):
Go around kind of the hotspots, you know, Union Station and maybe where John Laz- Lazia was killed in 1934 at his apartment at 350 Armor. Mm-hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:42:59):
There's
Gary Jenkins (01:42:59):
A good one. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:43:00):
Haven't done it yet either, but it's on my list. There,
Gary Jenkins (01:43:02):
There's a, there's a, uh, apartment building at 350 West Armour right at Armor and Gillem. Elst Armory anyhow, 350 Armour and it's got a, one of those circular driveways and, and he pulled up into that and guys came out from beside, next to the apartment building and shot him. So that's one. Of course, Union Station has the bullet holes still in it from the, uh, Union Station Massacre.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:43:22):
Right.
Gary Jenkins (01:43:23):
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Which has a mob connection, John Lazia. Uh, that would not have happened if he had not approved that these guys were in town and were able to, were gonna try to break this guy out of, of, uh, custody when he came through the station.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:43:36):
Yeah. And
Gary Jenkins (01:43:36):
Then provided them with some means to get out of town. So there is a mob connection to that Union Station. Of course, the old trap is closed up, but it's down there 5th and Truce. You go down there and just cruise Little Italy. Just look around. It, it's almost like you're in Mulberry Street area north in, uh, Manhattan here. It's like you went back into the turn of the century, even with all the new construction down there. Yeah. All
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:43:58):
This
Gary Jenkins (01:43:58):
Old architecture and these old buildings and just envision, you know -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:44:02):
Yeah. All
Gary Jenkins (01:44:03):
These immigrants that were down there at one time. Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:44:06):
That's a pretty cool way to - Kind of a cool
Gary Jenkins (01:44:08):
Little restaurant at, uh, Go Don or something like that at, uh, at the old Gillis Sundries at, uh, uh, uh, Gillis Street at the - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:44:17):
The
Gary Jenkins (01:44:18):
North end of, if you, south end of Gillis Street. Gillis runs from the freeway down to, uh, or where the freeway cut off everything down to 5th Street about, it's like 300 Gillis. It's a pretty good little restaurant. Okay. And that was Gillis Sundries, which was, uh, live and going back then. There used to be a game upstairs, a card game, ongoing card game upstairs above it. Oh, nice. And, and that Gillis Sundries is all kinds of stuff that happened down there that, uh - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:44:44):
You
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Gary Jenkins (01:44:44):
Know, like one of the Spiro boys was in there and one of those skolas came in, tried to intimidate the owner, and he, he jumped up out of the corner and, uh, threatened to beat up the skola and he's, "Oh man," he said, "I didn't know you were in here." <laugh> Ran out. You know? Yeah. Those kind of neighborhood stories, all that north end stuff. And - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:45:02):
And of course - You can go find like the people living in those areas that have these generational stories too - Yeah. Yeah. That have been passed down. Um, have you eaten at Lazia inside the Crossroads Hotel? I have
Gary Jenkins (01:45:12):
Not. I have not.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:45:12):
You gotta add that to your list. Okay. For sure. Um, a couple other questions. First of all, anything else that you wanna mention about you, what you're doing to make sure that we have people here, um, literally here about what your, where they can follow you, find you, watch your stuff, listen.
Gary Jenkins (01:45:26):
Oh, I mean, uh, you know, my Gangland Wire and, and the internet is just all over the place. Yeah. I, you know, really done it. It's been out there long enough that the SEO has been decent in the last several years. Yeah. And, and my name and everything. But, but my new and murder blueprint's a little harder to find. You just have to type in every word Murder Blueprint - Sure. And maybe add Gary Jenkins to it and you'll find the podcast. I have a Face - I may have created a Facebook page for it and I'm trying to - Okay. Put some stuff up and - I'll
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:45:53):
Link people to it on my website. Okay. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:45:55):
And of course, I have a Gangland Wire podcast group. Has like 60,000 members. I had to shut it
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:46:01):
Down
Gary Jenkins (01:46:01):
To, uh, private because I was getting too many scammers. So I, I - Okay. I think you asked to get in, then we have to approve, you have to answer a couple of questions and then you have to be - Very cool. And gangland wire page, of course, and, and all the usual kind
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:46:14):
Of -
Gary Jenkins (01:46:15):
Yeah.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:46:15):
And you have merch, like you're wearing a hat.
Gary Jenkins (01:46:16):
Yeah, yeah. If you wanna pay enough money, uh, you get one of my gangland wire hats and, uh, uh - I should've
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:46:21):
Gotten one before our episode. We could've worn them together.
Gary Jenkins (01:46:23):
Coffee cups and, uh - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:46:25):
Uh,
Gary Jenkins (01:46:26):
Make you up a t-shirt and - <laugh>. And give me a donation on, you know, you just go on my, uh, my website, gangland wire, and you'll find all that stuff that - We'll
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:46:34):
Get you a GoFundMe. Maybe we can start that too. <laugh> Um, okay. Well, let's wrap up with a couple rapid fire questions. Okay. So I have to ask everybody, what is on your Kansas City bucket list? What have you not done that you would like to do around KC?
Gary Jenkins (01:46:47):
Oh, man. I guess I'd like to go to a current game in the new stadium. Oh yeah. I haven't been in a new stadium. I saw him over at the, the, over at KCK or the Wyandot County Stadium but I haven't been in the new stadium. I haven't. But, uh - That's
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:47:02):
A great one. I
Gary Jenkins (01:47:03):
Guess go to Lazias. I'm, I'm, I'm not familiar with that
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:47:05):
Place. Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:47:06):
I'm
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:47:06):
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Gonna add that to your bucket list for you. Okay. <laugh> Um, okay. Besides the movie Casino and of course the documentaries that you have made, what are your favorite mob or mafia movies that we should go check out that would be really entertaining for us that we haven't seen? Oh,
Gary Jenkins (01:47:21):
Well, you know, uh, Goodfellas. Okay. And it was written by the same guy, Nicholas Pelegi, who's a longtime mob writer, uh, was involved with Scorsese on both of them and, and both Casino and this. Actually spent a bunch of time in Kansas City, uh, researching for Casino. Uh, Goodfellas is the most
accurate depiction of day-to-day life. Good to know. And, and of course the one with Joe Pastone, the, uh, Donny Brasco, and that's a really ac. I like these accurate depictions of day-to-day life. Sure. I don't really wanna glorify him so much. And then the day-to-day life is boring. <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:47:56):
Right, right. Yeah, that's fair. That's a good point. It's not
Gary Jenkins (01:47:59):
All exciting, but, uh, but it shows a lot of that day-to-day life, and it shows the, the, uh, structure of, of the difference in, you know, the, the made guys. Paul Barrio was, uh, I don't remember who played him, but Paul Barrio was the, was the mob guy, and then the Robert De Niro character in Goodfellas, he was Irish and Jimmy the Jimp Burke, and then he had some Italians and, and a lot of non-Italians under him. And so that's, that's kinda how it works. Mm-hmm. You got Italians that are made guys, and then they'll have crews like this underneath them.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:48:29):
Yeah.
Gary Jenkins (01:48:29):
Everybody's not a made guy. Everybody's not really a member of the mafia, but they can be protected by them.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:48:35):
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gary Jenkins (01:48:36):
And that's what the mafia really does. They're like the policemen for all these different criminals. If you pay them tribute and if you're connected to them - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:48:42):
Then
Gary Jenkins (01:48:43):
There's. I- if you take off another criminal, which a lot of criminals take off other rob or steal or hurt other criminals, if you're protected by a mob guy because you're picking him tribute, why - Yeah. That's
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:48:54):
Huge
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