Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:00):
Thanks so much for coming on the
Katie Montgomery (00:00:02):
Podcast today. Thank you, Mindy. I'm thrilled to be here.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:03):
And we are both wearing our emerald. Of
Katie Montgomery (00:00:05):
Course.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:05):
Because we are going to introduce who you are. And so let's do this. I, I would love for you to, , introduce who you are. Mm-Hmm. You're Katie Montgomery with Emerald Counseling. Absolutely. , but I kind of wanna like upfront sort of like address who this would be a great episode to listen, to share, to save for later, kind of hit like really what we're gonna, you know, what the biggest impact is, like who you're helping. Sure. And then I wanna get into your backstory. [00:00:30] Oh, sure. Where you're from and everything.
Katie Montgomery (00:00:32):
Okay. Yeah. Well, that sounds great. Well, thank you so much Mindy for having me. Yeah. My name is Katie Montgomery. I am a licensed professional counselor here in the Kansas City area. I'm also an adjunct professor at Park University. I'm a coach and I also do, , speaking and presenting. So, , but in my work as a therapist, I own, , my solo practice, which is called Emerald Counseling Services. Uh-Huh <affirmative>. , And we're wearing the green for
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00:58):
Emerald. Yep. On purpose.
Katie Montgomery (00:01:00):
[00:01:00] So <laugh> , love the color. , So I own Emerald Counseling Services. My office is in, my physical office is located in corporate woods. , And I help my clients navigate through life transitions, , everything from anxiety to depression to trauma to, , a- a- anything. Really, really the whole scope. I see adults only, so I, I don't see children, but, , adults. And then I've found a real [00:01:30] niche in a couple of populations. Mm-Hmm. The first one being men. I have, , a lot of men on my caseload and that's kind of a sweet spot for me. I also see a lot of women our age and older. , Life transitions especially seem to be hitting women. And even when we talk about things like health concerns, perimenopause - Yeah. Autoimmune - Hot topic. Menopause, right? These things that we weren't really taught about - Yeah. , Are now getting more research and more air time, [00:02:00] which is fantastic.
(00:02:01):
And women wanna know more about how that physical change in their body is affecting their mental health.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:02:06):
Yeah.
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Katie Montgomery (00:02:06):
And it does.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:02:07):
Yep.
Katie Montgomery (00:02:07):
And so that's a, another niche. And then, , I really have enjoyed a lot of my focus right now has also been on, , high performers. So yes, like high achievers - Yeah. Perfectionism and, and things like that. And that we can talk about - Yeah. Trauma and how all of those things kind of relate because [00:02:30] all of these populations that I see, every client that I see has experienced trauma in one way or another. Yeah. And the, the definition of trauma isn't just something horrendously bad that happened one time. Sure. That's good to know. People have that misconception. Yeah. So we can talk a little bit about that if you want. Yeah. , so I think for anyone who is interested in therapy or the therapeutic process, what it might look like, , this would be a great episode for them - Okay. To tune into. , Therapy [00:03:00] isn't as scary as it may seem.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:02):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:03:03):
I also would like to sort of talk about how there is still a stigma to - I
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:07):
Have that on my list.
Katie Montgomery (00:03:09):
Oh, good. Okay. <laugh> And, and how we're sit - we're seeing it even now, even
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:13):
Even though we've come so far. Exactly. Even though we've come so far. Exactly. Because you and I are the generation where there was no discussion. There was no suggestion of a, a therapist probably in the most extreme situations, I would imagine, for us. That's exactly right.
Katie Montgomery (00:03:26):
And it was only if something was really wrong.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:28):
Really wrong.
Katie Montgomery (00:03:28):
Really wrong. Yeah. Like [00:03:30] if, if you were crazy, quote unquote, right? Mm-Hmm. And now therapy is, is more of a tool that I, I think everybody should have at some point. Yeah. Because it can give us so much self knowledge and help us navigate all of this stuff. Life is hard. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:45):
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Life
Katie Montgomery (00:03:46):
Is just really hard no matter
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:03:48):
Where you're coming from. I feel like the older. I'll just speak for myself. The older I get in ways, the easier it gets because you're more wise and you have more experience. But on the flip side - Absolutely. The harder it gets [00:04:00] because then you also have so much weight that you're carrying and so much responsibility and so many things that you're starting to look back and be like, "Gosh, how did I, how did I get here to, you know, for this to affect me that way?" Absolutely. Just so many things.
Katie Montgomery (00:04:12):
There are, there are so many things that, that factor in. And it starts from childhood. It starts from pre childhood. I mean, it is - Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:04:19):
This
Katie Montgomery (00:04:19):
Is, we're talking generational stuff that gets - Generational. That gets passed down to us that we carry with us. Yeah. And you, you mentioned, you know, well, it kind of gets easier as you get older. And it does. Mm-Hmm. You know, the [00:04:30] perspective. We, we develop wisdom and coping skills and - Sure. And that's fantastic. And then sometimes - Yeah. There's also stuff that we need to kind of deal with. So - Of course.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:04:40):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:04:40):
I
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:04:40):
Mean, I know people who went to therapy for the first time in their late 40s, you know?
Katie Montgomery (00:04:44):
Absolutely. Absolutely. And let me just say, there is no age limit. Right. My oldest client right now is, , 86. 83, 86. Mm-Hmm. I've had as old as 88. Okay. And it, I, it [00:05:00] just, they come in at all ages. Mm-Hmm. People come in at all ages wanting to know more about themselves. How do I move through this particular event or this part of my life? Or how do I just feel better? Yeah. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:13):
That's
Katie Montgomery (00:05:13):
My job. Yeah.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:14):
Is
Katie Montgomery (00:05:14):
To kind of help
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:15):
Them. Obviously everything we'll talk today will be anonymous with people that - Of course. But I do want to get into like maybe some cas studies or certain scenarios - Sure. So people can go - Absolutely. Oh, okay, that's me. Or, oh, okay, that's my mom, or whatever. And kind of like, you know, and then share that with someone who's like, you could really benefit from, from [00:05:30] this. Absolutely. Yeah. , How'd you come up with the name?
Katie Montgomery (00:05:32):
So, , well, Emerald is my birthstone. Okay, great.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:35):
I'm a May, I'm
Katie Montgomery (00:05:35):
A May baby. <Laugh> , I've always loved Emerald.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:37):
That's a good one.
Katie Montgomery (00:05:38):
, It is, isn't it?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:39):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:05:39):
, my, both sides of my family are, , of Irish descent. Mm-Hmm. And so I've always loved Ireland and, you know, of course they call it the Emerald Isle. Yeah. Yeah. , And I just actually got back from a vacation in Ireland just a few weeks ago. My dad and my son and I went together, the three of us. So - Had
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:54):
You been before?
Katie Montgomery (00:05:55):
My dad and I had.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:56):
Okay.
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Katie Montgomery (00:05:56):
But this was a first for my son. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:05:57):
- You'll have to tell me about that after the podcast.
Katie Montgomery (00:05:59):
Yeah. It'll [00:06:00] be great. Yeah, it'll be great. , It was eventful, I'll
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:02):
Tell you.
Katie Montgomery (00:06:03):
<Laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:03):
All right.
Katie Montgomery (00:06:04):
, So I love emeralds. I love, , the color green. And then when I was researching it, I looked up what do emeralds symbolize? And they actually symbolize emotional equilibrium. What?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:17):
And I
Katie Montgomery (00:06:17):
Though - Perfect
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:18):
Fit.
Katie Montgomery (00:06:18):
Well, if that isn't just the most perfect -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:20):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:06:20):
Name, I have to do it. Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:22):
So
Katie Montgomery (00:06:22):
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That's how I came up with it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:23):
Okay, great. Yeah. , so do you wanna get into how you decided to choose this field? Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:06:29):
Let's do that.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:30):
[00:06:30] And then you're a Kansas City native? I
Katie Montgomery (00:06:31):
Am. Okay, great. I am Kansas City native. Yeah, born and raised in Olathe. Okay. I live in Prairie Village now, but I've lived kind of all over, , briefly, you know, I've, , around the country, but, but I consider Kansas City my home.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:06:44):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:06:45):
, so therapy, my, my career as a therapist, which is also called counseling or, you know - Okay. People, some people say they're counselors, some people say they're a therapist. I just say therapist. Okay. Anyway, , I, this was not [00:07:00] something that I did right out of college or had any interest in. I didn't go to therapy myself for the first time until I was in my mid - 20s. Okay. And it was to deal with identity of, you know, like, who am I? What do I want in this world? Mm-Hmm. And then a lot of anxiety. Yeah. So I, I, when I describe my anxiety, just my baseline is if you put your car in park and you hit the gas and the RPMs go up super high, that's my baseline. Oh,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:07:28):
Fun.
Katie Montgomery (00:07:29):
So, right. So - And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:07:30):
[00:07:30] I am an anxiety person as well. Okay. So I
Katie Montgomery (00:07:32):
Just love this topic. On the anxiety scale, right? So I, and I love m- medications for that. Yeah. I love, , other, you know, body-based things. I, I am not shy to say that I, you know, or I'm not embarrassed to say that I am on Lexapro and it keeps me feeling completely like myself. And I will
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:07:50):
Say I am on Cymbalta.
Katie Montgomery (00:07:52):
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Great. Excellent.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:07:52):
Yeah. <laugh>
Katie Montgomery (00:07:53):
So yeah, so in my 20s, I went to therapy for the first time and, , really enjoyed my, my therapist and, , [00:08:00] have been, had been going, you know, through my 20s and 30s. But in my 20s, I was doing something completely different. I was working nonprofit. Okay.
(00:08:09):
I did fundraising. I was a grant writer. I was doing all of this other stuff. And then, and this is what happens when you graduate with, , a bachelor's degree in history and English. <Laugh> You're not exactly marketable. Oh, I love it. So you just find a job where you find a job. Yeah. , so anyway, , I got married in my mid to late 20s. [00:08:30] , My ex-husband and I had our son when I was in my mid - 30s. Mm-Hmm. And then I stayed at home with my son for a decade. Oh, okay. Yeah. And then as he decided, or as he decided, as he got older, , I kind of figured, I need to figure out what I need to do, what I wanna do. What's, what's gonna be super fulfilling for me? Yeah. And oddly, I had several people within about a year tell me, "You might wanna consider going into therapy." Like [00:09:00] not going to therapy, but becoming a therapist.
(00:09:02):
And - What
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:02):
Do you think made them say that? What did they know about you or see in you?
Katie Montgomery (00:09:07):
That's a good question. , I think I've always been a person who people feel comfortable talking to -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:16):
Uh-Huh.
Katie Montgomery (00:09:16):
About how they feel. I'm not ju- judging anybody for, for anything. I'm very empathetic. , And I, maybe that was what I saw. And, and
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:26):
Even talking to you, there's like a soothing, very peaceful, [00:09:30] calm element.
Katie Montgomery (00:09:30):
Oh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:31):
Wow, nice. So there,
Katie Montgomery (00:09:32):
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Am
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:32):
I - Could be
Katie Montgomery (00:09:33):
That too. Am I, , fostering emotional equilibrium
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:36):
Here? Yes, absolutely. And hopefully I am
Katie Montgomery (00:09:38):
Too. Oh my gosh. It's the
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:39):
Green.
Katie Montgomery (00:09:40):
It's the green. , So maybe that was part of it. Sure. And when I started thinking about it, , it really hit because one of the things I'd really enjoyed doing when I was, , still a, a stay at home mom was I would occasionally substitute teach.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:09:57):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (00:09:58):
And I loved [00:10:00] it. Really?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:10:01):
Yes.
Katie Montgomery (00:10:01):
And I don't particular, particularly care for young kids. Uh-Huh. But I was substitute teaching little kids and I just loved it. Interesting. I thought it was so fun. So I really enjoyed the teaching aspect and helping.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:10:13):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:10:14):
And, , if I were good at science or biology, I might be in medicine - Yeah. Because I like the helping aspect.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:10:20):
Uh-Huh.
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Katie Montgomery (00:10:21):
So I though about it. I researched some programs, , some counseling programs around town. And then I spoke to my own former therapist, - uh-huh. [00:10:30] Who, , had gone to UMKC and gotten her master's of arts and counseling. And when I researched that program, it felt like the right fit for me. Yeah. And so that's what I did. So I applied, I got in, , went, and I did part-time. So it took me about three and a half years. Okay. , so you go through the coursework of that master's, and then you do a practicum, and then you do an internship, and then you pass your exam. Mm-Hmm. And you have to get all of the hours and all of that kind of stuff. And then [00:11:00] you get to go to work. Yep. And so, , , the minute I started the coursework, I completely fell in love with it.
(00:11:08):
Mm-Hmm. , it's just the most fascinating thing - Yeah. To figure out why we are the way we are. I love that. There's,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:16):
And so much to learn continuously.
Katie Montgomery (00:11:18):
So much to learn. And I also, the, the, also, I love people. Mm-Hmm. I really enjoy people. I'm an extrovert. I will suck the energy out of a room immediately. <Laugh> I just, I love talking to people. Yeah. I think [00:11:30] people are so interesting. So really figuring out, , why we tick, why we are the way we are was, was just an absolute, , 100% A+ fit for me. It just, it landed perfectly. You
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:42):
Just need a full time.
Katie Montgomery (00:11:43):
And then when I started doing my practicum and internship, amazing. Yeah. It's
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:49):
Just
Katie Montgomery (00:11:49):
The most fulfilling job. I absolutely love what I do, and I love my job. I can't imagine. And so great
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:11:55):
To hear, because not everybody - Yeah, I love it. And not everybody gets to have that privilege in life.
Katie Montgomery (00:11:58):
No, they don't. And I'm so [00:12:00] lucky to have it. Yeah. And I also want to acknowledge that it's incredibly difficult work. Sure. Because I sit with people every day. I don't get to see people on their best days. Right. I see people in their worst times, you know? Yeah. And that can weigh on someone. Yep. , and there's a lot of compassion fatigue and burnout and vicarious trauma that, that therapists and clinicians, , , experience - Right. Daily. Yeah. And, and so we as a community of [00:12:30] therapists really have to remember that. Yeah. And take steps to really take care of ourselves. Yeah. So.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:12:35):
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So you're based here. People come in and see you. Mm-Hmm. Do you do any kind of virtual - I do. Yes. Okay. Good to know. I do virtual as well. , So kind of walk us through, like, what is a typical day like for you? Mm. What, what all is happening kind of behind the scenes? And then we'll kind of, we'll obviously get into EMDR specifically because that's really what I'm wanting to learn about, but yeah. What is kind of a typical day or week look like for you? Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:12:57):
Typical day, typical week. It kind of depends. [00:13:00] , In the summertime, I don't teach. Okay. , in the fall, I teach a course, , called Intro to Guidance and Counseling for undergrads at Park University. Yep. In the spring, I teach positive psychology. Ooh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:12):
Oh, I know.
Katie Montgomery (00:13:13):
It's so good. Do we
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:13):
Get into that later? Oh,
Katie Montgomery (00:13:14):
Do you want to? Yes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:15):
Okay. I
Katie Montgomery (00:13:15):
Love it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:16):
I wanna know all the things.
Katie Montgomery (00:13:17):
Oh, I love it. It's so good. Okay. , so I teach, , fall and spring, and that, that's on Tuesdays and Thursdays - Okay. In the mornings. So in the mornings on Tuesdays and Thursdays, that's what I'm doing. I'm up in Parkville. Got it. Then I will go into the office and have clients [00:13:30] the rest of the day usually. Same with everything else on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I do work, , I work a lot. Yeah. I work a lot. I, I like my job a lot and I work a lot. Yeah. , I work a lot of Saturdays. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:43):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:13:43):
But I try to limit my Saturday appointments just so I can have some semblance of - Mindy Hargesheimer (00:13:47):
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Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:13:47):
A real life. <Laugh> , and when I'm doing clients, I try to stagger them. It, they're 50 minutes long, 50 to 60 minutes long. Okay. I try to give myself, mm, half hour between each one [00:14:00] if I can. Sometimes that doesn't work with scheduling. To
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:14:02):
Kind of decompress, to kind of take notes to - Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:14:05):
To decompress, to scroll on social media - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:14:08):
To go
Katie Montgomery (00:14:08):
Get myself a diet Dr. Pepper.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:14:10):
Get ready for the next.
Katie Montgomery (00:14:11):
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. To get a bite to eat, something like that. Yeah. , I'm very lucky because I own my own business. Yeah. So I set my own schedule. Yes. So when I wanna travel, I just travel. Pick up and go. I can easily. I don't have to clear it with anybody, and that's an absolute privilege, and I understand how lucky I am about that. ,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:14:28):
Ditto. I love that too. Oh,
Katie Montgomery (00:14:29):
It's amazing. [00:14:30] <Laugh> , it's a huge benefit of - Yeah. Being self-employed, but I also understand not everybody can do that. So typical day, typical week, that's what it looks like. Just, , clients, they, they come in. Most of my work, I'd say 80% of my work, 85% is in person.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:14:44):
Okay. Are most people coming in, , before we get into what exactly EMDR is - Sure. Are most pe - are most people coming in, , on a recurring basis? Yes.
Katie Montgomery (00:14:53):
Okay. Yes. , I, I don't really specialize in solution-based therapy, which [00:15:00] is shorter term. Okay. , I do think a lot of, , community organizations excel in that. Mm-Hmm. I, I don't. I'm more of, someone will come into me for -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:15:10):
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Do you have a couch, I guess is a question. Of
Katie Montgomery (00:15:12):
Course.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:15:12):
<Laugh> That is, that is not a myth. That is a, yes, there is a couch waiting for you.
Katie Montgomery (00:15:17):
100% I have a couch. And, , it's comfortable, but it may not be the most comfortable. I don't know. I'm, I've been considering redecorating to have a more comfortable couch. Love it. , But yes, I have very soothing colors in my office. Perfect. , it's [00:15:30] very therapisty. Okay. It's very therapisty. Yes. Absolutely.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:15:33):
Okay. So EMDR. Yes.
(00:15:35):
How long has EMDR been around?m. Because I feel like it is more of a, , people are hearing about it more. And I will use myself as an example. , So when we were chatting, I was telling you that I have a friend who went through something extremely difficult. Mm-Hmm. , married with kids, and she ended up utilizing EMDR. Mm-Hmm. And so we've talked about it, and I've never been through it myself. Mm Hmm. So I wanna [00:16:00] know, like, when did it come around? Has it become more, , I don't know what the right word would be, prevalent, popular, , you know - Yeah. As of today, you know?
Katie Montgomery (00:16:09):
Yeah. It's a great question. , And I'm sorry about your friend - Yeah. Experiencing, , what she did. So EMDR, and at this point, we are talking straight trauma. EMDR is a trauma processing therapy. It's a technique that was kind of invented - uh-huh. In 1987. Okay. So [00:16:30] it's been around a really long time. Yeah. But it, I think because of social media and because of more trainings and accessibility to it - Yeah. It's become more popular in the, in the last maybe five, 10 years. We've, we're hearing about it more. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:16:44):
-
Katie Montgomery (00:16:45):
And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:16:45):
I should note too, I've had multiple people within my sphere who, friend of a friend, family member have gone through it. Oh, excellent. And so that's where I become so intrigued to get the word out because everybody that I know who's been through it - uh-huh. Has said it's been the best decision they ever made. I love hearing that. [00:17:00] So that's why you're here so we can get the word out with you hearing Fantastic. I can talk
Katie Montgomery (00:17:03):
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About this for how many hours do I have? How many days can I talk to you about this? Nerd out about it, right? Oh my God I'm gonna get the word. Yeah. Okay. So EMDR was, , created by a woman, , named Francine Shapiro in 1987. EMDR stands for Eye Movement, Desensitization and Reprocessing Therapy. What she noticed was when she was on a walk one day, the bilateral stimulation, meaning left foot, [00:17:30] right foot, left foot, right foot, was helping reduce the distress that she felt, her distressing emotions. So she though about it and EMDR was created and the eye movement piece comes in because if we're doing this, which like this - Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:17:47):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:17:47):
And for people who are listening, I'm moving my, , eyeballs back and forth without moving my head. But if you're moving your eyeballs back and forth - uh-huh. It's bilateral stimulation the same way you do when you're walking.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:17:58):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:17:59):
So [00:18:00] that's why when we go for a walk, for instance, we feel better because our eyes are going back and forth, back and forth. Our bodies are going back and forth left and right. Mm-Hmm. What that does is it processes emotions so they get stuck up in our brain - uh-huh. And it releases them through our body. So EMDR has become, , probably the gold standard, I would say, of trauma processing. And it, it's from PTSD to, it can be used for complex PTSD as well. , [00:18:30] It's for traumatic events, it's for big T trauma, it's for little T trauma. It's incredibly useful. Okay. So back in the old days, <laugh> , and some, , some clinicians still do this, and I'll do it for the camera, but they would use their two fingers and pretend you're my client and I'm doing this. Okay. We would do a session over and over, , and I would control this, but I would have you watch my fingers.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:18:56):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (00:18:57):
And there's some talk therapy that goes into it. I mean, not [00:19:00] necessarily processing, but, you know, I want you to think of the image or the belief, you know, the feeling, the distress, the disturbance in your body. There's a process. Sure. There's a lot of protocol. So you're not just winging it, right? Yeah. There's a lot of protocol. There's a lot of training that goes in - I'm sure. To being EMDR therapy. I'm sure. So this is how it started. Okay. Right? And this would help process, and I'll talk to you more about the - Yeah. Trauma piece and how it gets stuck and reprocessed. This is the mode of how it, it used to happen. Okay. Then people were noticing a lot [00:19:30] of therapists were getting shoulder and elbow issues because of the repetitive movement. Oh. Mm-hmm. And so then they created a light bar, which it looks kind of like a sound bar, you know, on your TV.
(00:19:41):
Yeah. And it would, , and you would follow the lights on the light bar. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:45):
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So
Katie Montgomery (00:19:46):
That's a method. People still use those. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:48):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:19:49):
I use buzzies. I should have brought them in. I did EMDR today on a client actually.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:53):
Well, when I put this out there, I'll, I'll share something. Okay. Maybe that you have that you can give to me. That would be
Katie Montgomery (00:19:57):
Great. So now - Or
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:19:58):
People should just go in and experience it. [00:20:00] Well,
Katie Montgomery (00:20:00):
They should. They should just come in and make an appointment with me. <Laugh> , so now I use buzzies. Okay. And it's a, a buzzer in one hand and a buzzer in another. And I control it via an app. It's via Bluetooth. Okay. It's very high tech now. Yeah. And it just z- z- z- z - on alternating hands. I control the speed and the intensity. And we walk through the protocol. We're trying to reprocess a memory, , you know, or a core belief, a negative core belief, whatever. And that's the mode. And [00:20:30] there's also a way to do it virtually, which is very cool. You can do it. I have a friend
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:20:33):
Who did it virtually during COVID.
Katie Montgomery (00:20:35):
Okay. Yes. Perfect. Yes. And, , that is a very easy way to do it. I've done it virtually as well with, with clients. Okay. So, , so ultimately what happens in EMDR is if, if you can picture, like, if this is a cross section of my brain, of a brain, we've got, let's say this is the frontal lobe. Mm-Hmm. Right? Right here. This is the last part of our brain. [00:21:00] What's
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:00):
The age? I'm curious. So for -
Katie Montgomery (00:21:02):
Did this just
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:02):
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Change? It did a little bit.
Katie Montgomery (00:21:04):
Okay. It just increased. For women, I'm hearing 26. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:07):
For
Katie Montgomery (00:21:07):
Men, 28. Where it's
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:09):
Fully developed. Average.
Katie Montgomery (00:21:10):
Where it's fully developed.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:11):
Which I feel like I never heard about this until, like, the last year.
Katie Montgomery (00:21:13):
No. And this is what's so brilliant about this profession is w- we are learning more and more every day. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:20):
So
Katie Montgomery (00:21:21):
What I'm telling you today could be completely obsolete in two years. Sure. Which is great. So have me on in two. Yeah, because it's
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:27):
Always moving forward.
Katie Montgomery (00:21:28):
Yes. It's always mo - when we have so much research. [00:21:30] Yeah. There are so many studies that are constantly being done. Mm-Hmm. It's fantastic. Mm-Hmm. So we know now, it used to be 25. Oh, your frontal lobe doesn't develop until you're 25. Well, it's probably a little later, but some people's might be developed earlier. It's, it's an average.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:21:46):
Can we just talk about, like, why that's important to know? Oh, yeah. Like, what exactly does it mean for people who haven't heard that, that if you're a female at the age of 26, it's finally fully developed? What does that mean?
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Katie Montgomery (00:21:57):
Yeah. Well, what it means is your, your frontal lobe is, [00:22:00] is responsible for reasonableness. Okay. Rational decision making. Mm-Hmm. , regulation. Like if you, if something happens and you see something, you're not gonna react immediately. Yeah. If you have a healthy frontal lobe and no major history of trauma. , If we think about how a 15 year old might react to something versus a 30 year old - uh-huh. A 30 year old likely - Yeah. Is going to be on average - uh-huh. , You know, have more [00:22:30] perspective. Sure. That's what happens with the, with the reasonableness - Okay. And, and the, the frontal lobe. , Men are a little later, according to the recent research, , of, of it developing. And, and it's honestly why we all make really stupid decisions when we're in high school and college. Right. Right? We look back at it and we - That
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:22:47):
Explains it. Oh my,
Katie Montgomery (00:22:48):
My
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:22:48):
Fault.
Katie Montgomery (00:22:49):
What? No, it wasn't our fault. It was nature. Yes. It absolutely was nature. Literally. It is literally nature. Yeah. So, so our frontal lobe, , is the, the part of our brain [00:23:00] that is responsible for figuring out whether or not we're actually in danger. Okay. Right? That's the last part of the puzzle of our brain that gets, that gets formed. Now our amygdala, which is, let's just say it's over here. Uh-Huh. , so frontal lobe, our amygdala over here is mature at birth. Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:20):
Mm-Hmm. This part
Katie Montgomery (00:23:21):
Of our brain -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:22):
How different? Yes. How varying. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:23:24):
So when we are born, the amygdala in our brain is mature. It [00:23:30] doesn't need to develop anymore. It already knows exactly what it needs to know in order to function. The function that the amygdala has is file keeper. Mm. It's a huge file cabinet. It's a memory keeper.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:23:44):
Is it true that every memory is stored? It's just a matter of. Okay. Yes.
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Pre-Verbal memory, pre-conscious memory, like me - people will come in and say, "I swear I have a memory from when I was two ears old." I believe that. Mm-Hmm. I believe that. I mean, I don't have a memory from when I was two - [00:24:00] Right. But I'm not them. So yes, it will remember pretty much everything. And most of these memories don't need to be recalled. Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:10):
We
Katie Montgomery (00:24:10):
Can just forget them. Right. Because they weren't important or they weren't, , instrumental in our development or in our life or something like that. But that is the file keeper. But the point
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:19):
Is they can be recalled - They can. And that is how you w - you're getting into the undoing - Exactly. Or processing getting through.
Katie Montgomery (00:24:26):
So everything that has ever happened is stored up here. Mm-Hmm. Everything good, [00:24:30] everything bad, everything in between. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:24:32):
I just wanna add in a side note. I did, , a breath works session recently. Oh, yes. And in talking to the, , the lead, the instructor, you know, honestly, I did it and I was like, "I don't think I have anything luckily like major trauma that I need to address. But I've heard so many positive, , responses and experiences with it that I wanna do it for myself." And she's like, "Well, you'd be surprised, you know, there've been people that have come in here that ended up coming out or going through it and [00:25:00] a memory was recalled that they had no idea about." Yeah. That's something that was traumatic for them. Absolutely. And it kind of explained, like, the root of what they were going through today. That's exactly right. So like the fact that it could be buried so deep, but it can be released to help you move forward.
(00:25:13):
It is. And breathwork,
Katie Montgomery (00:25:15):
To your point - Yeah. Is a, a regulation strategy. Mm-Hmm. It's a, it's a technique like somatic body based stuff - Yeah. Is incredibly helpful for trauma processing. It's another mode. It's - Yeah. Similar to EMDR in that it's a technique that can help. [00:25:30] Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:30):
Not.
Katie Montgomery (00:25:31):
EMDR is a gold standard - Yeah. But
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:33):
It
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Katie Montgomery (00:25:33):
Is not the only thing - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:34):
To,
Katie Montgomery (00:25:34):
To use with trauma, you know? Yeah. You
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:36):
Don't
Katie Montgomery (00:25:36):
Even have to use EMDR with trauma.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:38):
Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:25:39):
, it's just really helpful. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:25:40):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:25:41):
So, but that's a, that's a great point that, you know, even, even something you don't consciously remember can get moved. Yeah. The energy can get moved a little bit. A, a memory can be, can be triggered. Mm Hmm. , so the amygdala holds onto all of that stuff. Now, let's say something really bad happened. Let's [00:26:00] use, , the most common, , example is often a war veteran. Okay. Right? So let's say there's a war veteran who, , was in combat and they come home and the fireworks on July 4th triggers some, something in them that makes them panic and they duck and they think they're under attack. So what happens at that moment [00:26:30] is the amygdala gets triggered by that sound. Yep.
(00:26:33):
So the memory, the sound of that, that is what is the trigger. Mm-Hmm. , it can be a scent, it can be a smell, it, it can be a literal memory. It can be a behavior. It can be seeing somebody act a certain way. It can be all kinds of things. Yeah. So if the amygdala gets triggered, the frontal lobe, your thinking brain, your reasonable brain, I mean, the, the rational part goes offline. Mm. Goes offline. It is, [00:27:00] it is buffering. Wifi is out. It is gone. We have, we have no coverage here. So - Okay. So what happens is the amygdala triggers our stress response, our trauma response - uh-huh. In our nervous system. So the amygdala triggers fight or flight, freeze or fawn. So we either go. So the war veteran either goes into fight or flight, which is hyperarousal - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:21):
Or
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Katie Montgomery (00:27:22):
Hypoarousal, which is freeze or fawn. Okay. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:25):
Haven't heard of the latter. Yes. So
Katie Montgomery (00:27:27):
We'll get into that. Yeah. Okay. So there are four basic, [00:27:30] , trauma responses. I call them stress responses in, they're, it's an interchangeable term. Sure. Trauma response, stress response. , Some people get a little itchy when I say trauma because they, I don't have trauma.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:40):
It's a
Katie Montgomery (00:27:42):
Judgy. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:43):
Or heavy.
Katie Montgomery (00:27:43):
Yeah. Right? It's heavy like, "I don't have trauma." Right. Okay. We'll just say it's a stress response. Okay. It's a body response. Yes. Same,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:48):
Same
Katie Montgomery (00:27:48):
Response. Everybody has
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:49):
Stress.
Katie Montgomery (00:27:50):
Yes. Sure. And everybody has trauma too. Sure. Even if it's not - Yes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:27:53):
Good point.
Katie Montgomery (00:27:54):
Even if it's not big T trauma, every single person you see, everybody watching, listening, [00:28:00] everyone has experienced some kind of small T trauma. Nobody is
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:04):
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Immune to it. Nobody
Katie Montgomery (00:28:05):
Is immune to it. We've all been bullied or we've all had a really bad argument with a partner or a spouse or a best friend. Those are small traumas. Yeah. You know,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:13):
Those,
Katie Montgomery (00:28:13):
Those can cause -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:14):
Confrontation. Exactly. Yeah. Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:28:17):
So, so when, , the amygdala gets triggered, it sends the signal down to the nervous system. The nervous system reacts the way that the nervous system has been taught to react, which is often [00:28:30] something that we learn and is imprinted -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:32):
Historically.
Katie Montgomery (00:28:33):
Historically when we are children, when we're little.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:35):
Mm.
Katie Montgomery (00:28:36):
So often my, I'll just use myself as, as an example. , My stress or trauma response is often to freeze. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:28:45):
Or to
Katie Montgomery (00:28:45):
Fawn. That's when I just absolutely feel like withdrawing from the confrontation, avoiding confrontation - uh-huh. Procrastinating, , a - the isolation feels safer. [00:29:00] Okay. So we're doing this, or we're not doing it consciously. Sure. We're doing it because it feels safe. Mm-Hmm. And this is what we learned at some point - Yeah. Is to go away, go, go be alone or go versus
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:11):
Versus some, others who are full-blown fights. Exactly.
Katie Montgomery (00:29:15):
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So fight or flight, , and fight and flight doesn't necessarily or always mean like, oh, I'm gonna punch this person's face in. , That, that's fight, obviously. Yeah. If you do feel like fighting, that's a fight response. , But it's [00:29:30] also competitiveness.m. It's also, , , control. Mm-Hmm. It's perfectionism.That's
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:29:39):
The hachiever
Katie Montgomery (00:29:41):
That you work a lot with. That's a fight response. Okay. And then flight response is, , maybe another one that I also resonate when, resonate with freeze and, and flight because anxiety is where flight lives. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so, , and since I sort of run high on the anxiety scale, I can find myself in [00:30:00] Flight probably. Yeah. You know, pretty, pretty easily if I'm, if I have some sort of
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:04):
Trigger. And flight means what
Katie Montgomery (00:30:06):
Exactly? Flight means for safety, I wanna get the hell out of here. Okay. I'm, I'm leaving. I'm exiting this conversation. I am, - Literally a departure
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:16):
Of some sort. Run
Katie Montgomery (00:30:18):
Away.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:18):
Physical or - Absolutely.
Katie Montgomery (00:30:19):
Emotional.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:20):
Think
Katie Montgomery (00:30:20):
About, you know, and think about it. If we are out 50,000 years ago living on the Savannah - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:30:25):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:30:26):
These are the trauma responses that we were born with, [00:30:30] our fight response is not gonna come out when we are confronted with a thousand pound animal that wants to eat us. Yeah. Our flight response will. Okay. , but our, our freeze response might come out if we're confronted with something that we, that
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we can maybe hide from. Okay. So we may hide in our cave or in our, you know, dwelling - uh-huh. , If something is hunting us. Okay. Right? Yep. So, so if we think about it, it's just, it's base instinct. Mm Hmm. It [00:31:00] is absolute just how am I gonna stay safe? How am I gonna survive? And- And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:31:05):
This is all based on how you individually, whatever, however you grew up, whatever happened - Exactly. It was instilled at that point.
Katie Montgomery (00:31:12):
Yeah. I think it, I think a lot of it is imprinted on us. , A lot of us just, you know, we learn from - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:31:18):
How
Katie Montgomery (00:31:19):
We're taught. A lot of it is, , I don't know, generational, you know?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:31:24):
I know, which is so interesting to me - Yeah. Because I've listened to so many podcasts about talking about, like, the literal physical, [00:31:30] like, how it makes its way - Exactly. From the grandmother to the mother to the - Yes. Daughter or whatever, you know? There are - Which is wild to. A million
Katie Montgomery (00:31:37):
Books on the topic. And it's so fascinating the, you know, generational trauma versus, , epigenetics and how epigenetics can, , is the, you know, theory of, well, here's a response where a chemical t - ca - chemical tag, excuse me, gets turned on by an experience or turned off by an experience and [00:32:00] that leads us down a different rate. It's just, it's the most fascinating stuff. Yeah. So - We'll have to
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:04):
Do like a 2.0 or -
Katie Montgomery (00:32:05):
Oh, can we? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. I would absolutely love it. Yes. I, I mean, I could talk about trauma all day long. Yeah. , which makes me super fun at parties, let me tell you. Oh. I'm always like, what kind of trauma can we talk about?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:15):
Yeah. No, you probably have such like insightful conversations. I don't know. Absolutely. I'm probably
Katie Montgomery (00:32:20):
A huge boar. It's fine. It's
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:21):
Fine. We'll go out after this and then I'll work on back. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:32:23):
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Okay. Awesome. That sounds great. I'm actually, I, I can be fun. I can be fun, I promise.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:32:27):
I love
Katie Montgomery (00:32:27):
It. , So, so anyway, so back to, to EMDR. [00:32:30] If a war veteran came in and said, I, I felt myself get triggered after hearing fireworks - uh-huh. Then what they would work on, a therapist would work on is how do we reprocess that trauma and those memories that are stored in the amygdala so that they can break apart a little bit and not cause the bodily disturbance that it causes him, his stress reaction. That's the whole point of EMDR is to [00:33:00] relieve, relieve the bodily disturbance.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:04):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:33:04):
That's really what the benefit of EMDR is. It, we get stuck -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:09):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:33:09):
In trauma. And, and if it happens at, at, at certain ages, where we, when it happens is kind of where we get stuck -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:19):
Uh-Huh.
Katie Montgomery (00:33:20):
, In the way that we deal with it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:22):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:33:23):
So if I have clients who have been, , abused in a number of ways, right, in childhood, and sometimes [00:33:30] their stress responses don't match up to their adulthood, their adult age. Mm-Hmm. Sometimes it feels like they feel like, I feel like a little kid. Well, it's because that happened to you. Yeah. And that memory is, is
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:43):
A
Katie Montgomery (00:33:43):
Seven year old's memory. It's not a 40 year old memory. Right.That's
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:46):
What's kind of resurfacing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Can you, , just for people to know, like, you know, if this is for them or whatever, like, what are, you said the big T? Big
Katie Montgomery (00:33:56):
T trauma. Big T
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:33:57):
Trauma. Mm-Hmm. Can you give us more, cite more [00:34:00] examples of what those would be, , for people to know?
Katie Montgomery (00:34:04):
Absolutely. So big T trauma would be, , combat.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:08):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (00:34:09):
, a really terrible accident. , Assault. Mm-hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:14):
You
Katie Montgomery (00:34:14):
Know, things like that. , Little T trauma would be more like getting bullied. Okay. , arguments with a friend. Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:25):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:34:27):
A stressful boss. Okay. You know, [00:34:30] people, things that are maybe not. Well, let me think. I'm trying to think of a way to say it that doesn't sound minimizing because - Sure. Those things are serious. I was gonna say not as
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:42):
Serious. And maybe, maybe even without categorizing them, just knowing like - Yeah. You know, suicide is - Big
Katie Montgomery (00:34:48):
T.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:48):
A big T. Big
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Katie Montgomery (00:34:49):
T. Murder, big T. Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:50):
Sexual
Katie Montgomery (00:34:50):
Assault,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:51):
Big
Katie Montgomery (00:34:52):
T. , If a random attack -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:34:55):
I mean, the country that we live in - Big T. Shootings, terrorism. Yeah. Yes. Any of it.
Katie Montgomery (00:34:59):
Big [00:35:00] T
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:00):
Everywhere.
Katie Montgomery (00:35:01):
We're living through a lot of trauma.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:02):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:35:03):
And, and that's the other thing is that, , the series of little T traumas that we go through all the time - uh huh. Is, can, can add up and be as serious, if not more so, you know - Yeah. Than, than one big trauma that we, that we experience. Yeah. So we, we can't underestimate how complex PTSD shows up as well.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:23):
Yeah. And
Katie Montgomery (00:35:24):
So PTSD is different than complex PTSD. Okay. In that PTSD is one event. [00:35:30] Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:30):
,
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Katie Montgomery (00:35:31):
A war veteran has PTSD. Complex PTSD is someone who grew up in an emotionally neglectful home.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:39):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:35:40):
Or someone who was abused in a marriage, was, , was married to a narcissist for, you know, 40 years or 10 years or whatever. Mm-Hmm. And was abused emotionally. That's complex PTSD.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:35:53):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:35:53):
Complex PTSD can be worked through in a number of ways. EMDR is one of them. Mm-Hmm. , but it's, [00:36:00] I don't know if it's indicated as the number one - Yeah. To use for complex.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:04):
Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:36:04):
, PTSD, absolutely EMDR. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:06):
So - Well, it's just interesting to hear to like cite examples because even just then I had a thought of - Oh. You mentioned a boss. And I was like - Oh, yes. Oh, I definitely have had a boss historically who was, when he was, when it was great, when it was good, it was great. When it was bad, it was torture kind of thing. You know, and I still to this day, I'm like, I wonder how much of my 20 year old su - 20 something, , self is like still impacted [00:36:30] to this day.
Katie Montgomery (00:36:31):
I would suspect a lot of it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:33):
Yeah. Because
Katie Montgomery (00:36:33):
We' still very impressionable at that age.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:36):
Yeah. And
Katie Montgomery (00:36:36):
If it was one of your first work experiences in the professional world or first bosses, that can really lay the groundwork - Yeah.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:45):
For
Katie Montgomery (00:36:45):
How we envision what working looks like. And then we get into our
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:49):
Fight or flight
Katie Montgomery (00:36:50):
Or our freeze or fawn in
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:52):
Responses.
Katie Montgomery (00:36:52):
Yeah. So.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:36:53):
Well, and I just wanna add too, just, , candidly going through the breath works thing, the thing that I kind of, , and I would love for her to come on the podcast to talk about [00:37:00] like that with me too. The thing that I kind of discovered in short was kind of going back and realizing sort of a self-worth question for myself. Absolutely. Which now I'm tying, connecting the dots back to a self-worth thing that could be associated with my experience with him. Mm-Hmm. And how that has impacted me, you know, 20 years moving forward and what I've done professionally, you know? Absolutely. So it's really interesting just to kind of tie it all together. That
Katie Montgomery (00:37:24):
Is interesting. Mm-Hmm. And to, to tie it even more tightly, , the belief [00:37:30] system there - Uh-huh. Is really important in EMDR work. And so I have a number of clients who come in who talk about worthiness or - uh-huh. I have to be perfect or I'm not good enough. And they have this negative core belief. Mm-Hmm. And that can also be something that we work on as an EMDR target - Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:37:50):
Target.
Katie Montgomery (00:37:51):
So it doesn't have to be some major, you know, car accident or - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:37:55):
Major
Katie Montgomery (00:37:56):
Trauma. It can be this belief of, I should have done -
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:00):
[00:38:00] Imposter syndrome. I should
Katie Montgomery (00:38:01):
Have known better. Mine. So when I did EMDR - That's what
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:04):
I was gonna - Yes. So you've been through it. I
Katie Montgomery (00:38:05):
Have.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:06):
Obviously. Yes. Since you are leading this.
Katie Montgomery (00:38:08):
Yes. So my, , you know, we kind of joked around about in, in my EMDR training about we all kind of found our golden thread of trauma. <Laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:16):
Yes.
Katie Montgomery (00:38:17):
And what that belief is in our, in our brains. And for me, I can trace everything back, everything that, that makes me feel like what a terrible memory or, [00:38:30] you know, the bodily disturbance. Sure. A little bit of a cringe. Yes. The cringe stuff. I can trace every single trauma back to, I should have known better.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:38):
Mm. I
Katie Montgomery (00:38:39):
Should have known better. Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:40):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:38:40):
So it's those should haves where, I mean, you can't should yourself to death, you
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:44):
Know,
Katie Montgomery (00:38:44):
Because you will.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:45):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:38:45):
, but I should have known better. And so that's, , a core belief. We've got beliefs that, , relate to control where I, I, I have to be perfect. - Uh-Huh. There's worthiness. There's, I- I have to be the best.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:38:59):
I have to win. [00:39:00] I have to -
Katie Montgomery (00:39:01):
I won't be loved. Yeah. I won't be accepted until I'm the best. Those kinds of things. That's what most of my EMDR clientele work on, are these core beliefs.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:10):
Are you seeing more of that in the world of social media and the world of everybody has to be beautiful because that's what everybody looks like and everybody has to be rich because that's what you see and yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:39:22):
Yeah. There's a lot of, there's definitely a lot of that. Mm-Hmm. There's, oh gosh, yeah. And not even in EMDR, but just in [00:39:30] therapy in general. Yeah. , the, the standards -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:34):
Uh-Huh.
Katie Montgomery (00:39:34):
Of, of beauty, of youth. Yeah. You know, where I, I'm 48 and I, this, I've living my best life. Yeah. I love aging. Yeah. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:44):
Absolutely
Katie Montgomery (00:39:45):
Love it. And I also look in the mirror and think, wait
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:39:48):
A minute, should I get more Botox? Yep. Yeah. <Laugh> Should I get that?
Katie Montgomery (00:39:52):
Every day. Yeah. And I wonder that. Yeah. And then I have to go back and then I ca - I, I cannot have a conversation, Mindy, without talking about patriarchy. [00:40:00] I'm so sorry, but - Go for it. I, and the white supremacy, I do it all the time. Do it. So those are white supremacists patriarchal beauty standards.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:07):
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Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:40:08):
And, , I, I, that's ridiculous. Mm-Hmm. I mean, look at everything. Look at, look at what we have to offer the world. Yeah. All
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:16):
Of us.
Katie Montgomery (00:40:17):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:17):
Right?
Katie Montgomery (00:40:18):
And we're basing our worth on whether or not I have 11s right here.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:22):
Yeah. It's insane. And we're all, I, I mean, you can't generalize, but we're all impacted by that. All of us. Wh- whether we realize it or not. All of us. [00:40:30] Or whether we maybe attribute it to that or not.
Katie Montgomery (00:40:32):
Absolutely. Yeah. And we all have internalized misogyny and internalized biases and all of these things. Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:39):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:40:40):
So I obviously have to have a con - I mean, I can't have a conversation.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:43):
You can say whatever you want. This is an open book. This is
Katie Montgomery (00:40:45):
Why I'm super fun at parties where I'm like, well, let's talk about
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:48):
Wh supremacy. I think it's kind of common topic that a lot of people. I can tell you a lot of my friends do end up talking about, so. Good. Okay, good. Well,
Katie Montgomery (00:40:53):
I'll come to one of your parties
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:54):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:40:55):
I'll just -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:40:55):
Come on over. Yeah. I love it. I love it.
Katie Montgomery (00:40:58):
So, but yes, to answer, to circle back to your question, [00:41:00] , I do see a, a lot of people, , kind of wondering about their identity and - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:06):
Who
Katie Montgomery (00:41:06):
Am I if I'm not 25 and beautiful? Yep.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:09):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:41:10):
Am I worthy? Am I important? Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:13):
You
Katie Montgomery (00:41:13):
Know, what do I have to offer? Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:14):
And that
Katie Montgomery (00:41:14):
Sort of thing. So.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:41:15):
So, okay. So with EMDR - Uh-huh. Let's just say someone comes in, you do a consultation obviously to understand what they're there for. Mm-Hmm. And then do you go into, like, kind of walk me through, I guess, what it's like, , the, I don't [00:41:30] even know how to ask this. Like, so you do. How does the I
thing. I mean, obviously you're not gonna do it here. It's not gonna work, you know? But, like, how do you walk somebody through that? You're with them for 50 minutes. Yep. Do you do it weekly until somebody feels like they've achieved, , a breakthrough? Hmm. Or what does that look like?
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Katie Montgomery (00:41:46):
Great question. Yeah. So first, I always offer a free consultation for everybody just so they can see whether or not they like my vibe, if I'm gonna be a good fit for them. Mm-Hmm. , and if they choose to move forward [00:42:00] with me, then we start with an intake. Okay. That's the very first session. , I like to schedule those for 90 minutes. Okay. That's the longest session that we'll ever have, but I get all of the background inform- information. Mm-Hmm. I, , ask every question you could possibly ask, , in an intake. And kind of get what they're looking to accomplish. Like what are their goals? What are, what are they wanting to do? Yeah. And if EMDR is something that they're wanting to do, I would probably do a couple more just regular sessions [00:42:30] with them - Okay. Prior to EMDR, , in order to establish good rapport, make sure they felt that they were safe - uh-huh.
(00:42:39):
That they trusted me, and that they knew what the process looked like.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:42:42):
Because that's gonna allow somebody to feel like they can completely break down their barriers - Yeah. And get the most out of that. Exactly.
Katie Montgomery (00:42:49):
And - So
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:42:50):
That's important.
Katie Montgomery (00:42:51):
And I also think that, , most of my clients who do EMDR have been with me longer than six months before they even do EMDR. [00:43:00] Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:01):
Yeah. Do they, do a lot of people come to you for counseling or therapy and then realize that EMD. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:43:07):
Definitely. Got
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:07):
It.
Katie Montgomery (00:43:08):
Yeah. We, most of them do, in fact.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:09):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:43:10):
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, I've, I've had a couple who, , a couple of people who've come in with more acute issues. Mm-Hmm. I had one, , client come in who was attacked by a dog and it was really disrupting, , their daily life. And so we did EMDR through that - Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:25):
To
Katie Montgomery (00:43:26):
Work through that, which was super helpful.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:28):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:43:29):
And also this [00:43:30] client also said, "Well, I kinda like to work through some other stuff too." Yeah. And so, so there are - While
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:35):
We're at it. Yeah. Let's just get to work. <Laugh>
Katie Montgomery (00:43:37):
Right? While I'm here.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:39):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:43:39):
, so, but yeah, I would say that most people who come in don't really know why they're coming in. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:47):
A lot of
Katie Montgomery (00:43:47):
Times, I just -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:43:48):
I, I like to hear that though. Yeah. 'Cause I think that would apply to so many people who are like - Absolutely. I'm feeling something and I'm unsure of what to identify.
Katie Montgomery (00:43:55):
And I don't know what it is. Yeah. And I, I get that a lot from men too. Or men will come in and say, you know, [00:44:00] my, my wife says I have to come to counseling because something's going on with me and I don't know what it is and she doesn't know what it is. And so then we're able to sort of, , you know,
look at their experiences and what happened and what's going on. There's nothing wrong with you. Just what happened? Yeah. You know,
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:16):
What
Katie Montgomery (00:44:16):
Happened in your life? Mm-Hmm. And so then if we determine EMDR is a good fit and I do psychoeducation, which is one of my favorite things - Okay. Is teaching clients about - Yeah. You know, methods and, you know, modalities and techniques. [00:44:30] Yeah. If they determine, yeah, that sounds like a good idea, then what I would do is use a session to prep them. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:38):
Which
Katie Montgomery (00:44:38):
Answers all of their questions about the EMDR process. I tell them exactly what I will do. Can you kind of
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:44:45):
Give us an example? Yeah. Walk through.
Katie Montgomery (00:44:48):
Yeah. So first what I would want to do with them is to resource them, which is to make sure that they have the, , skills necessary that if after an EMDR session they go home and they get triggered, [00:45:00] they can regulate themselves. Okay. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:02):
I
Katie Montgomery (00:45:02):
Wanna make sure they have those skills. Okay. So we do that in that session.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:05):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (00:45:05):
, and then I tell them exactly what we do. So we, , I need to, let's just pretend. So, okay. So we're gonna do EMDR, Mindy. So what we're gonna do is, , we're gonna identify the negative core belief that you feel you have. Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:21):
That
Katie Montgomery (00:45:22):
You, somewhere in here, even though it may not be logical, you still feel, you still Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:26):
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Believe
Katie Montgomery (00:45:26):
About - Kind
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:27):
Of haunt me. About what seems like a self-worth thing. Perfect. Kind of hunt me. [00:45:30] Yeah.That's
Katie Montgomery (00:45:30):
A great one because that's, I think, I think that's universal for - Yeah. For a lot of people. So, , so the negative core belief, Mindy, sounds like, , I am not worthy or I am unworthy. And you would say, yeah, that fits. And if it didn't fit, we'd find the right wording until it did.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:48):
Sure.
Katie Montgomery (00:45:48):
And then I would say, if we're doing it just very general, like, this is how, this is the belief that I have about myself. Versus like
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:45:57):
An incident I was bullied that I fell onto.
Katie Montgomery (00:46:00):
[00:46:00] Bingo. Yeah. Because there is, there's that type of EMDR - uh-huh. Which is contained dog, dog attack client. Okay. That's contained reprocessing. But if it's a core belief of, I am not worthy - uh huh. Of X, Y, and Z or I'm not worthy of love. Mm-Hmm. Let's use that. Yeah. , or I have to be perfect. That is a more universal belief in your body and permeates probably more of your existence. Yeah. So then I would use regular EMDR.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:46:26):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:46:27):
So no containment on that. Got
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:46:29):
It.
Katie Montgomery (00:46:29):
So [00:46:30] what I would say is, can you come up with a, , picture or an image, , or even a specific memory of when you felt like you weren't worthy? Mm-Hmm. And so you would do that and you would tell me about that. And we would have that as kind of a still frame image. Okay. , then we would find what you want to believe about yourself - Okay. Someday. Mm-hmm. Maybe it's probably not gonna be after one session today, but someday, [00:47:00] hmm, I think I wanna, I think I wanna feel I am perfect
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just as I am. Mm-Hmm. That's the core belief that I really wanna feel about myself. Great. So we have that. So then, , I do a couple of scaling questions, which is on a scale of this to this - Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:16):
How
Katie Montgomery (00:47:16):
True does this feel on a scale of this to this? How, how disturbing does this feel when you bring up this memory? Mm-Hmm. Where do you feel it in your body? Okay, we have all of that. Okay. So then I would say -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:47:28):
Where are people feeling? Just head, heart?
Katie Montgomery (00:47:30):
[00:47:30] Most people. So the client I did today, , EMDR with, she felt it in her chest. Okay. (00:47:37):
And it felt tight and panicky - uh-huh. For her. , A lot of times it'll be in the throat. Okay. , it'll be sadness. It'll be grief. It'll be, , anxiety in the stomach. Mm-Hmm. , tension in shoulders. That's a lot of, , high performance. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lots of pressure with. I have a lot of high achieving clients and they often feel it just a weightiness - [00:48:00] Yeah. In their shoulders. , So it's, it's all over. Mm-Hmm. , hips sometimes with sexual assault. Okay. , it'll, they'll feel pain in their midsection or hips. Okay. , so it can be - uh-huh. It can be, , anywhere. Okay. , and so once we kind of fill out all of that basic information - uh-huh. Then I explain the process of here are these two buzzies. You're gonna hold them in your hands. You're just gonna sit on my couch. Mm-Hmm.
(00:48:26):
, for people who do eye movement, , the [00:48:30] eye movement mode, they're either having a therapist do this - uh-huh. Or they'll have a light bar where they'll sit in front of the light bar and they'll just watch the light go back and forth, back and forth. And did
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:40):
You say you do that or you, you're doing the buzzies? I do the buzzies,
Katie Montgomery (00:48:42):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:43):
Okay. Good to know.
Katie Montgomery (00:48:44):
, But I do like the light bar. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:45):
And
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Katie Montgomery (00:48:45):
I, I love the virtual option that's on, online that they follow a little dot - Okay. On
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:50):
A
Katie Montgomery (00:48:50):
Screen.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:51):
Yeah. That
Katie Montgomery (00:48:52):
The therapist controls the speed of. And so I -
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:56):
So even though it's called, even though it's eye movement - Uh-huh.
Katie Montgomery (00:48:59):
It
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:48:59):
Has - It has. [00:49:00] Progressed into just really this kind of balance - Exactly. Like back and forth. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:49:04):
Exactly. Yeah. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:05):
It's
Katie Montgomery (00:49:05):
The bilateral stimulation, so that means side by side, not at the same time. Got it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:10):
So
Katie Montgomery (00:49:10):
It's, you know, r- right, left, right, left. Okay. And if you don't have any of the technology, that's okay too. Mm-Hmm. Some therapists use this. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:19):
Which
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Katie Montgomery (00:49:19):
Is a quick, like, butterfly hug. This is the same, it gives the same thing. Got it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:24):
It's
Katie Montgomery (00:49:24):
Crossing the midline. It's, it's, it's, it all works out to be the same. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:28):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:49:29):
Same thing.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:29):
Interesting.
Katie Montgomery (00:49:30):
[00:49:30] So I would hand you the buzzies. I'd give you a little test of, like, here's how it feels, you
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:34):
Know,
Katie Montgomery (00:49:34):
Does that feel okay? Some people may have a texture issue. Hmm. Where, because these buzzies that I have are kind of, , they're soft. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:42):
,
Katie Montgomery (00:49:42):
I don't know what the material is, but, , you may have to cut this part out. It's kind of like - That's okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:47):
The,
Katie Montgomery (00:49:47):
Those buttons,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:49:48):
You know? Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:49:49):
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I don't know what that, rubbery, maybe. Sure. , and some people have texture issues. Yeah. If they do, okay. Then we'll, we'll pivot and we'll do something else. Okay. ,
(00:49:58):
Okay. So I give you the [00:50:00] buzzies. I say, "Here's how it, it's gonna go. I'm gonna have you hold that image - uh-huh. , That you came up with, , and that negative core belief. And then I'm gonna have you kinda close your eyes and I'm gonna start the buzzies and you're just gonna let your brain do what your brain wants to do. And I will stop the buzzies after, since it's, I'm, I'm letting you go a little bit longer. It's not contained. And every time I stop the buzzies, I will say," Okay, take a [00:50:30] breath, "which just means come back to me for a second. Yeah. "What do you notice?" Okay. And then all you would do is say, "Well, I am noticing either a feeling - uh-huh. A memory. , It could be a different image. It could be a, for some reason, I'm remembering, I'm picturing a TV show I watched when I was nine years old." Mm-hmm.
(00:50:51):
Great. You don't have to process any of it. You don't talk about any of that. You ju - I just say, "Go with that." Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:50:57):
And I
Katie Montgomery (00:50:57):
Start the buzzy again. And we do that over [00:51:00] and over and over again. Okay. And I, I watch how many seconds the buzzies are going. Mm-Hmm. I watch your body cues to see how you're reacting to it. If there's bodily distress. If I can usually tell if something comes up. Sure. , if emotion comes up. It's very common for people to feel emotional during. Are people
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:51:22):
Closing their eyes? Are they open? Is it whatever you feel? Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (00:51:25):
It's whatever you feel.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:51:26):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:51:27):
Yeah. , When you do eye movement, the actual finger movement, [00:51:30] certainly your eyes are open. Yeah. So that's different.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:51:32):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:51:33):
For buzzies, I would say all but one or two of my clients will close them, close their eyes. Mindy Hargesheimer (00:51:38):
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I would think so. Yeah. I feel like that would give you more opportunity for these, you know, visions, memories to - The
Katie Montgomery (00:51:42):
Images. Yeah. The images to go through. And so - Without distraction. Yeah. And so we just do that, and I keep an eye on time. Mm-Hmm. , and we, when we're kind of closing out, I'll let them know people can stop at any time. Mm-Hmm. You know, if you felt super distressed, if you hated the process - uh-huh. If [00:52:00] you wanted to quit, you're in control. Mm-Hmm. The brain is gonna do what the brain is gonna do. And the whole point of this is to feel better. The brain wants to heal. So does the body. Mm Hmm. We're just trying to get it to process.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:14):
So when these memories or, you know, images or whatever come up, is that part of the process of, like, release? Is that, it's like pulling the file - Yes.
Katie Montgomery (00:52:24):
Out.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:24):
It's so it can be released and you can move on. It's
Katie Montgomery (00:52:26):
Opening the file.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:27):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:52:28):
And just sort of, like, scattering all of that, all [00:52:30] of the paperwork decluttering. So decluttering. Yeah. Some decluttering. Okay. And then it kind of breaks apart a little bit. That's how I imagine it. Yeah. That's how it felt for me. Yeah. , is that it broke apart and it gave me room. Okay. It, it created space for me, and I thought - Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:44):
That's helpful. Oh
Katie Montgomery (00:52:45):
My gosh. What a relief.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:46):
Yeah. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:52:47):
The, the challenge with it is also that sometimes another, you know, the universe loves a vacuum, right? Mm-Hmm. So it'll fill it. Universe doesn't love a vacuum. Anyway, the vacuum gets filled. <Laugh> Yeah.That memory - I
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:52:59):
Love a vacuum. [00:53:00] I don't know what that says, but. <Laugh>
Katie Montgomery (00:53:03):
So oftentimes, some, you know, a client will say, "Well, something else came up." Uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:07):
You know,
Katie Montgomery (00:53:08):
A different memory or something else. And that's very normal. It's just - Something
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:12):
Unrelated, maybe. Yes.
Katie Montgomery (00:53:13):
It's kind of like whac-a-mole. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:15):
You
Katie Montgomery (00:53:15):
Know?
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:15):
Or
Katie Montgomery (00:53:16):
Jinga. In, in training, they talk about, , you can envision it as a jinga block. Okay. You know, and like, you're taking out this jinga block, but if you don't add another one in there, you know - Yeah. It might topple, so. Is
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:28):
It like a, is it [00:53:30] breaking it apart to release it because a lot of the individuals that you're working with have chosen to not face that visual? Mm-Hmm. Like they've pushed it so far back - uh-huh. That now you're asking them to, , reconnect with it so you can move it out.
Katie Montgomery (00:53:48):
Kind of confront it a little bit.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:49):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:53:50):
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Sometimes, yes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:51):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:53:51):
Sometimes, , yeah, avoidance is a great - Yeah. And
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:56):
Brilliant
Katie Montgomery (00:53:56):
Coping strategy. It keeps us safe. Which
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:53:58):
Could be scary. Very
Katie Montgomery (00:53:59):
Easy. [00:54:00] But
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:00):
Very obviously therapeutic in this case. Yeah. Incredibly -
Katie Montgomery (00:54:03):
Okay. Incredibly therapeutic. So if, if somebody is, and especially if, if it's behavior that, , feels scary or if they feel like they're gonna get judged or if they feel, , shame around - uh-huh. They're less likely to, to just want to talk about it and bring it up. , And so the processing of it really, in my client's experiences, [00:54:30] I think I could probably say, , allows them to feel more compassion for themselves - uh-huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:37):
In
Katie Montgomery (00:54:38):
The moment. Mm-Hmm. And it, it becomes less of a burden. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:43):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:54:43):
Less heavy to carry around. And then in turn, it doesn't create the bodily disturbance that guilt or shame or anger or fear may cause us. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:54:54):
Let's go back to the veteran. Please. And the 4th of July, the firework - uh-huh. Which is, , right around the time that we're at [00:55:00] right now. That's exactly right. And I think many of us know that we
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have, , neighborhood groups that people complain and people get mad when they complain that they can't do the fireworks. Yes. But there are real traumatic issues - Absolutely. That we're overlooking. So with a veteran - uh-huh. He's opening up the file - uh-huh. And this experience and war of that noise comes out essentially. Mm-Hmm. And then moving forward, how. Can you kind of help me understand, like, how he would be less triggered by it? Like, what exactly is happening that he [00:55:30] can hear it again the next year and not be bothered? Is it a, the release? Is it- It is. Confrontation?
Katie Montgomery (00:55:36):
Partially. And it's also learning more regulation skills. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:40):
So that
Katie Montgomery (00:55:41):
When he feels that trigger, because nobody ever stops being triggered. Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:46):
I mean,
Katie Montgomery (00:55:46):
Until we're dead. We're
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:55:48):
Gonna be
Katie Montgomery (00:55:48):
Triggered by all kinds of things. So it's not that he's gonna stop feeling that trigger or noticing that trigger. Mm-Hmm. But he's going to have more space - Okay. Between the immediate reaction that he's having now - Uh-huh. Where [00:56:00] his amygdala sends the, the fight or flight or freezer fawn, , response immediately. Yeah. , there's gonna be a little bit more space for him, which is called the window of tolerance.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:10):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (00:56:11):
So there's this thing called that we all have window of tolerance. Just picture it like a little window pane. Mm-Hmm. And everything we can tolerate is in this window, right? So even if it's at the corners, we're still okay. We're feeling a little good. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:23):
But
Katie Montgomery (00:56:24):
Basically we're okay if we're all in this window of tolerance. This is when we're regulated. Right now, you and I are regulated. Yeah. We're
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:29):
In our
Katie Montgomery (00:56:29):
Window of tolerance.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:30):
[00:56:30] Right.
Katie Montgomery (00:56:31):
, people who experience trauma, like the veteran - uh-huh. , Have. Trauma creates a s - a smaller, tighter window. Mm-Hmm. So their, , ability to experience trauma or those triggers, , isn't nearly as wide as maybe it was pre-war. Sure. Or prior to that experience.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:56:54):
Right.
Katie Montgomery (00:56:55):
So what EMDR can do is sort of expand that window a little bit. Okay. So that [00:57:00] the person who is getting EMDR can recognize, "Ooh, I'm feeling activated." Mm-hmm. But I'm, I'm not immediately hitting the floor to hide. Yeah. What this is, is it's fireworks, it's 4th of July. I'm gonna regulate myself. I'm gonna do body work. I'm gonna do breath work. Mm-Hmm. I'm gonna call my, , best friend. I'm going to go for a run. I'm gonna do something - Yeah. Body, physiological, psychological, , something to, to regulate. It's part of that regulation. Right. Got it. Yeah. It's a two-step [00:57:30] kind of thing where we have to add in the regulation - Yeah. Too. We have to learn those skills so that our body gets used to - Yeah. Working through. Because stress happens, and our stress response needs to have a completion. Yep. Our
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:41):
Stress
Katie Montgomery (00:57:42):
Cycle has to have a completion. Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:44):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:57:44):
So that can help.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:45):
Have you ever had anybody make it out in one session and just go, whoop?
Katie Montgomery (00:57:49):
Actually, I have. Really?
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Mindy Hargesheimer (00:57:51):
Yes.
Katie Montgomery (00:57:52):
, People who are extremely quick processors, myself, I'm a really fast processor, but - Okay. Probably because I'm a therapist. [00:58:00] Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:00):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:58:01):
I'll talk about feelings and all that forever. <Laugh> , , so people who are super fast processors can, can find relief in, in a session. Okay. Truly. , People who have - But not the
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:15):
Norm. I wouldn't
Katie Montgomery (00:58:16):
Say it's the norm. Yeah. And I don't, I don't want to put too much pressure on someone. Yeah, of course not. If they come in and they expect to feel great after one session, I'm like, "Oh my God." Yeah, yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:25):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (00:58:26):
"What's Wrong with you?" Yeah. Well, absolutely nothing. You know, there's nothing wrong with you. Right. It [00:58:30] just may take more than, you know, 40 minutes or 50 minutes to work through a lifetime of this core belief. Mm-Hmm. So, , I have had a client who, I mean, within 10 minutes, he was like, "Oh, I just, I feel so much better." <laugh> Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:46):
But
Katie Montgomery (00:58:47):
It was a really fast process. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:48):
You're like, "And our work is done." I know. Yeah. I was like,
Katie Montgomery (00:58:51):
"Well,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:51):
What else you
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Katie Montgomery (00:58:52):
Got?" <laugh> Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:58:52):
Would you like a coffee? Yeah. <laugh>
Katie Montgomery (00:58:55):
So, , but there are also some other, , techniques that I've done. [00:59:00] One is called critical incident desensitization. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:04):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:59:05):
It's kind of like baby EMDR. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:08):
And
Katie Montgomery (00:59:08):
That was, and that you can find relief in minutes. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:12):
Minutes.
Katie Montgomery (00:59:13):
Interesting.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:14):
Yeah,
Katie Montgomery (00:59:14):
It's fascinating. , That was created for the first responders during Hurricane Katrina. Oh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:20):
Because
Katie Montgomery (00:59:21):
They were seeing and experiencing so much devastation - uh-huh. And loss of human life and just trauma. Mm-Hmm. And they were getting completely overwhelmed. [00:59:30] And so, , I don't know who, , I'd have to check my sources of who created the critical incident desensitization. Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:38):
But
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Katie Montgomery (00:59:39):
It is, it's this, this as someone talks you through, and it can provide so much relief. I've done it on people for, , car accident. I did on my uncle when he was in a car accident. , I did it - Is
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:53):
That something he could do on his own? Or is it really like you need to be guided by - Both.
Katie Montgomery (00:59:57):
Okay. So you can,
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:58):
-
Katie Montgomery (00:59:59):
Like you can
Mindy Hargesheimer (00:59:59):
Do [01:00:00] incorrectly.
Katie Montgomery (01:00:01):
You could it. Yeah. You could do it incorrectly because you can actually accidentally sort of process trauma right back in.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:07):
Oh.
Katie Montgomery (01:00:08):
Yeah. Okay. And you don't want it to know. Yeah. Or get. Yeah. But, but it's also -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:11):
I just imagine someone being like, "Okay, you know, here we go. I'm worthy," you know? What can
Katie Montgomery (01:00:16):
Work
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:16):
Or whatever is
Katie Montgomery (01:00:16):
If you do it. Sorry, I keep hitting the microphone. What can work is if you do it kind of slowly -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:21):
Uh-Huh <affirmative>.
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Katie Montgomery (01:00:22):
That, if you, with a, with a positive thought, that's tapping in something positive. Or
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:29):
Maybe if somebody's [01:00:30] like, "I can't get to Katie. I am in a moment of c- c - is this something they could just do kind of on their own? Would it have any kind of -
Katie Montgomery (01:00:36):
They could if they did it low and slow.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:39):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:00:39):
Just to be clear. Positive affirmation. Cause you could overdo it. Okay. A, a really beautiful memory with somebody that you love, your kid or your dog or whatever. You can do that as like a soothing kind of thing. Okay. But if you start going fast, you might accidentally like bump yourself up into something you don't want to get into.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:00:57):
Which is why you' studied this so much and you are the one to [01:01:00] be doing this helping you. I don't know.
Katie Montgomery (01:01:01):
Maybe Google it before you do
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:03):
It. <Laugh> Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:01:03):
But, , but this baby EMDR really, I mean, it is fantastic for, for
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:08):
Quick
Katie Montgomery (01:01:09):
Processing.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:09):
Okay, good. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:01:10):
So if you can't, you know, get to an EMDR session, this critical incident desensitization Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:14):
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Can work
Katie Montgomery (01:01:15):
Too.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:15):
Yeah. Well, which maybe that is a good, , segue into. So I had a chiropractor in here a couple months ago and we talked about social media and don't go to social media to crack your back, you know, like you're going to end up injured for life or whatever. What is happening in the world of social media that people [01:01:30] in relation to, I mean, EMDR, but maybe anything else that you're like, please, like PSA steer clear of these random people telling you what to do, if you're seeing any of that?
Katie Montgomery (01:01:42):
I, I have seen some, although I will say, , there are some really excellent therapist creators -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:50):
Oh, okay. Out
Katie Montgomery (01:01:50):
There.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:01:51):
Good to know.
Katie Montgomery (01:01:52):
, I, I know a number of them from my own program, so I'm a little biased. Yeah. But they're, they are providing good information - uh-huh. [01:02:00] <Affirmative>. With appropriate disclaimers. That's good to know. They're not, they're not providing advice. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. They're not providing, hey, here's how you do EMDR. You don't do that. On your own. Yeah. Okay. , You need somebody who is trained in it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. , And when it comes to social media, take it with a grain of salt. You know, check the qualifications, certainly. Yeah. You know, make sure it's not just some rando who, you know, decided to read a self-help book and proclaim [01:02:30] themselves
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:31):
An expert. Right? Which I'm sure that person's out there. Of
Katie Montgomery (01:02:33):
Course. And I mean, I, you know, I still feel that way where I'm like, am I even qualified to do what I'm doing? You know, I mean, I do -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:38):
Back to imposter syndrome. Why do we do that? Yeah. I
Katie Montgomery (01:02:41):
Don't know. Maybe I need to do EMDR.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:42):
You clearly went to school. <Laugh>
Katie Montgomery (01:02:45):
I've had the training. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:46):
I know what
Katie Montgomery (01:02:46):
I'm doing. , But yeah, so I, I would say just be a conscientious and critical consumer -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:54):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:02:54):
Of social media. And that also goes for AI.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:02:59):
Great
Katie Montgomery (01:02:59):
Reminder. [01:03:00] So many people use ChatGPT or other AM - AI models as therapy. Mm. And it -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:11):
We've already heard some horror
Katie Montgomery (01:03:12):
Stories about that. I tell my students this when I teach, you know, because I always have to tell them, you know, don't use AI to write your paper or do your assignments because I'll know.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:21):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:03:22):
, and you'll be in trouble.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:24):
Well, I mean, I would imagine in that case, somebody could literally end up in like a lawsuit someday because they didn't do the actual [01:03:30] work to help the human. Yeah. You know? You would think. But you would think.
Katie Montgomery (01:03:33):
You would think.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:33):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:03:34):
Yeah. So, , it's an echo chamber.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:36):
Back to the frontal
Katie Montgomery (01:03:37):
Lobe. Frontal lobe. Frontal lobe. Okay. AI is, can be, I, well, I, anyway, it doesn't matter about my feelings
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:03:43):
About it. That'll be a
Katie Montgomery (01:03:44):
3.0. Okay. <laugh> Give me your next party with a couple of beers or a glass of wine and I'll just have all kinds of things, all kinds of thoughts. , I, it is an echo chamber. Just be wary. It will tell you exactly what you want to hear. Mm-Hmm. And [01:04:00] therapy isn't going to do that. Yeah. Therapy might hold a mirror up and say, "Is this really how you wanna continue?" Mm-hmm. And that feels a lot different than AI saying, "Hey, you're doing a great job." Yep. "You're Doing, you're doing awesome. And you probably are doing great job." Keep doing what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. But blaming other people. Yeah. And, you know, recommending like, well, you should just never talk to that person again or you should just, you know, cut off your best friend. Yeah. It's, it can be very, -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:04:30):
[01:04:30] Cutthroat a little extreme. It gets a little
Katie Montgomery (01:04:32):
Extreme.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:04:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay. So you work, what, do you work with 18 and over?
Katie Montgomery (01:04:36):
I do.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:04:36):
Okay. Yeah. , Is there any reason you decided to do that versus working with kids or under 18? And what do you, I mean, you don't work with people under 18. Right. But are there others? Would you recommend it or do other people recommend EMDR for people that are under the age of 18?
Katie Montgomery (01:04:52):
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Oh, absolutely. Yes. Okay. So I, my clients are, I think the youngest client I have is probably 16. Okay. [01:05:00] As long as I can do talk therapy with them. Got it. I am not trained in play therapy. I never took a play therapy class. Right. , you know, you have to be just, that's a, a very different skillset. Mm Hmm. And I have mad respect for, for play therapists. They're incredible, incredible people. , I, my interests just don't, aren't, aren't that. Yeah, that's fair. , But EMDR is fantastic for kids.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:05:27):
Okay. Yeah. Good.
Katie Montgomery (01:05:28):
Yeah. Good to know. Kids, they use it for [01:05:30] kids all the time. , There were a number of play therapists in my particular training who were very interested in - uh-huh. Using it with some of, , their clients. And so with their kid clients, it can be, it can be for any age.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:05:43):
Okay. Any age.
Katie Montgomery (01:05:44):
The only, , contraindications, you know, of course, you have to be very careful if, , someone may have an issue with dissociation. And, and I mean like actual dissociation, not the dissociation that most of us do where we're just completely [01:06:00] zoned out
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:01):
And,
Katie Montgomery (01:06:01):
You know, scrolling TikTok or binging TV or just staring at a wall.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:07):
Just checked out, yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:06:08):
Yeah. What I, what I mean by that is like dissociative identity disorder.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:12):
Would that be like schizophrenic or - No.
Katie Montgomery (01:06:14):
Disso -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:15):
DID
Katie Montgomery (01:06:15):
Is what they used to call mul - or what they call now, , multiple personality disorder.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:20):
I see. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:06:21):
So you have to be very, very careful and have some assessments on that. Got it. , But most other populations, it can be used really well for anxiety, [01:06:30] depression, , addictions. Mm-Hmm. , ADHD people do great with it. , Of course drama, obviously. , But a lot, a lot of different populations. Age
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:41):
Groups - Addiction.That's an interesting one. I hadn't thought about sexuality.
Katie Montgomery (01:06:44):
Yeah, addiction. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:45):
Sexuality makes sense. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:06:46):
Absolutely. Yeah, because think about substance use disorder.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:49):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:06:49):
There's something in your mind
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:51):
Telling
Katie Montgomery (01:06:51):
You to keep
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:53):
Doing
Katie Montgomery (01:06:53):
That.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:53):
Keep
Katie Montgomery (01:06:53):
Drinking. Keep taking that drug. Keep doing it.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:06:56):
Yeah. What is that? I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah. These are the, I'm like, what else? What else are, you know? Do you have [01:07:00] any, like, I don't know, standout examples where you were just like, wow, like the transformation of this client, patient client that I had was just something for the books. Did you, do you have anything like that to share? Just out of curiosity and if you don't, it's okay. -
Katie Montgomery (01:07:16):
Yes, I do. And I think, , gosh, you know, I just love all my clients so much. -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:24):
And I love that you love it so much. That is huge.
Katie Montgomery (01:07:26):
I just love them. I learn -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:27):
It's like infectious, yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:07:28):
I learn more from [01:07:30] my clients than they could ever learn from me.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:31):
Aw.
Katie Montgomery (01:07:32):
I mean, I'm, I'm a big believer in that. Yeah. I mean, they're just, they're incredibly wise. They are just so incredibly resilient and, , I just love people. , I'm an eternal optimist. I always, you know, I just, I think the best of people and - But
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:07:48):
To be fair, they are a product of what you're helping them to get through too. So it's a reflection of what you're helping them with too.
Katie Montgomery (01:07:56):
Maybe, but they're doing the work too, right? Yeah. I know. Yeah. So, but, and, [01:08:00] but thank you. Yes. I, I, I hear what you' saying. I'm trying to take a compliment and it's gonna be really hard for me, so.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:05):
Well, I'll work on it. We're women, that's what we do. We don' take the compliment.
Katie Montgomery (01:08:08):
We don't take compliments. What are you talking about? -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:10):
That could be something we could get into for EMDR. Can't accept a compliment.
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Katie Montgomery (01:08:13):
That's exactly right. It's exactly right. What's core belief? I, I didn't actually, I'm not actually as good as everybody thinks I am. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, 100%. Yeah. , but yeah, I think I have seen some, some transformation in a number of clients, mainly in [01:08:30] how they. And I'm thinking of one in particular and I'll keep her details private. Of course. After, , an emotionally abusive marriage, , she is learning how to conceptualize her experience and her existence with much less judgment on herself.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:08:56):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:08:57):
Instead of the, I should have left. Why [01:09:00] didn't I leave?
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:00):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:09:01):
It's, okay. I see now. I didn't have the resources. Mm-Hmm. I was kind of stuck. Yeah. You know, both physically and emotionally. I didn't have a choice. Mm-Hmm. You know, and prior to EMDR, I, I think it was more of, I can't believe how guilty I feel of staying in this, in this marriage. , You know, and, and so I think those are sort of the, the transformations.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:27):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:09:28):
One client [01:09:30] also -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:30):
To find happiness again, right? Oh yeah. Like I feel like that's a big part of maybe that story too. Yeah. To be able to find happiness again. Yeah. For a lot of people who'd feel like -
Katie Montgomery (01:09:37):
And contentment. In contentment, yeah. And, and recovery and resolution. Yeah. And to be able to exist - uh-huh. In their bodies and in their lives as themselves and not as traumatized human beings who
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:55):
Are
Katie Montgomery (01:09:56):
Just, you know, it stuck.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:09:58):
Yeah.
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Katie Montgomery (01:09:58):
Without being stuck. And, and [01:10:00] that's the thing is, , EMDR aside, modality aside, I don't care if people go to a therapist who focuses on, , CBT or ACT or interpersonal therapy or psychodynamic. It doesn't matter the modality.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:14):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:10:14):
What matters is, do you have a good rapport with your therapist if you feel safe, if you feel accepted, and if you feel like you have a good relationship with that therapist? [01:10:30] The likelihood is, I can't remember the statistic. My clinical supervisor, bless her, she always says
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:35):
It's like
Katie Montgomery (01:10:36):
90%. I don't know, maybe it's 90, even if it's 80, even if it's 70.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:39):
Sure.
Katie Montgomery (01:10:39):
70%, 80% of these people will find relief. You
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:43):
Feel
Katie Montgomery (01:10:44):
Better just by having somebody that you trust.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:10:47):
What an incredible feeling.
Katie Montgomery (01:10:48):
It doesn't matter the modality. It really doesn't. Yeah. It really matters on the relationship. Okay. And I try to impress that upon the kids in the, , intro to guidance and counseling course as well. Yeah. Because they're like, well, what, what, what theory? What, [01:11:00] what's, which one's the best one? You know, in undergrad. And I remember thinking that in grad school. Sure. Like, what if I pick the wrong theory to focus on? It literally doesn't matter.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:11:08):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:11:09):
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As long as you have a good relationship with your therapist and your therapist can sit there and be there in the moment with you -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:11:16):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:11:17):
You will feel better.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:11:18):
Amazing. You just
Katie Montgomery (01:11:18):
Will.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:11:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. , do you collaborate with any other people? Like do you refer like anyone you wanna shout out or that you wanna talk about who you kind of work with around KC? Oh,
Katie Montgomery (01:11:27):
Absolutely. So, , I will say [01:11:30] the greater Kansas City area has a very robust, , therapy network. Love it. And it's fantastic. We're, , most of us, I would say, are on the Facebook. There's a private Facebook page. Okay. , for GKC therapists. , And it is probably one of the best resources to get information on, "Hey, I have a client who, , is experiencing X, Y, and Z. Any referrals, you know, it's not my specialty, but any referrals [01:12:00] for this person." And a ton of people will say, "Oh, this is my specialty." And then you can refer right to these folks.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:05):
It's so Kansas City, right?
Katie Montgomery (01:12:06):
It's so
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:06):
Great. Love it.
Katie Montgomery (01:12:07):
It's such a great resource.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:08):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:12:09):
, I, so I own my own business. I, I lease my office space in an office suite with a bunch of other solo practitioners as well. Oh, okay. Yeah. Many of whom I went to grad school with. And we are all very
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close. Yeah. And so we will say, "Hey, , you know, in, you know, if we had 10 minutes in the break room or over lunch, hey, question about [01:12:30] such and such a modality," or, "Have you noticed this with disordered eating?" Or, "What about this with ADHD?" Or, you know, somatic, you know, and, and things like that. And, and it's just, it's so great to have -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:12:41):
Meeting of the minds coming together. Collaboration and,
Katie Montgomery (01:12:43):
And just, you know, somebody to bounce things off of. Mm-Hmm.
(01:12:47):
, we also, I will always enjoy, , consultation groups and consultation meetings. , Group supervision is really important when you're, , still getting your clinical [01:13:00] licensure. Same with individual supervision. Sure. My clinical supervisor is Renee McCreary. She's been in the game forever. Love it. , She's fantastic. Yeah. Absolutely. Just her work is anti-racist. Her practice is, , she's just, she's incredible. So many good things. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so I've, I've had the benefit of just some really incredible super supervisory experiences - Yeah. And, and supervisors. And that's where we learn. Yeah. That's where we learn. So [01:13:30] you bring a question to a supervision meeting and you just think, God, here's this case conceptualization. What do I do?
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:36):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:13:37):
You know? And you, I always walk away -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:40):
Yeah. With,
Katie Montgomery (01:13:40):
With more information.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:41):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:13:42):
So Kansas City's a great place. Tons of referrals. Everybody's super friendly.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:45):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:13:45):
There are so many great therapists out there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:48):
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Yeah. So
Katie Montgomery (01:13:48):
Even if I'm not the one for you, then you will find the right
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:51):
Person. Right. Right.
Katie Montgomery (01:13:52):
Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:13:52):
For sure. Going back to, , your, your patients. So, and people like who are listening. , [01:14:00] If there's somebody out there who maybe feels like I have nobody to talk to, I've never told anybody this. I am scared out of my mind to let it come out or to, you know, put it out there and talk to someone. Like what would you say to them - Yeah. To get them to go, "This is kind of like your open door to come in and chat with me. Come in, talk with me." Yeah. , Because that's such a fearful thing for them that they've never, , faced, addressed.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:30):
[01:14:30] Absolutely. And it is scary.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:32):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:32):
To kind of bear your soul to a complete stranger.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:35):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:36):
I mean -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:37):
Sure.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:38):
Seems a little <laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:39):
Seems
Katie Montgomery (01:14:39):
Really scary.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:40):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:40):
<Laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:40):
,
Katie Montgomery (01:14:41):
So, and I have a lot of clients who have never been to therapy before.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:45):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:45):
And they come to me and they say, "I've never told anybody this." Mm-hmm. But then they'll tell me, you know, a really deep, dark secret. Yeah. And when they do, I always say, "Thank you so much for telling me that." Mm-hmm. I, I know that took a lot.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:14:59):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:14:59):
, [01:15:00] and I hope that I can l- let people know that I am a safe place. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:08):
My
Katie Montgomery (01:15:09):
Office, what you tell me in my office, as long as you're not going to hurt yourself or hurt someone else, , it's going nowhere. Yeah. It's in the vault.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:18):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:19):
It is absolutely safe and there is no judgment.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:22):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:22):
Absolutely no judgment. , It's unconditional positive regard, which is one of the, , skills that we learn in
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:28):
Grad
Katie Montgomery (01:15:29):
School. Yeah. And [01:15:30] it's, I don't know. I try to show up for every client with, , a real genuine sense of acceptance.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:39):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:40):
And, and I am trained in, in that. Yeah. I, I can handle that hard stuff.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:47):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:47):
You're not gonna scare me away.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:49):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:50):
I'm not gonna think you're a bad person. Mm-Hmm. Even if you think you did something bad.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:54):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:55):
Or if something bad happened to you, I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:15:58):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:15:59):
I think that [01:16:00] something maybe happened to you. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:02):
And
Katie Montgomery (01:16:03):
Maybe you would like to feel better. And so I, I would encourage anybody who maybe is reluctant or nervous to just shop around. Mm-Hmm. Go have a virtual consult or a phone call with, , me or a therapist who you feel like fits your vibe. Yeah. And if it feels safe, just try it.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:28):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:16:29):
Because the goal [01:16:30] for that therapist, hopefully, the goal for me as a therapist is to help you feel better.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:36):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:16:36):
That's all I want. Mm-Hmm. It's not my agenda. I'm not gonna try to make you be somebody else or anything.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:43):
Yeah. I
Katie Montgomery (01:16:43):
Just want my clients to feel better. Love it. That's the whole point.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:46):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:16:47):
, so I, I would encourage just to take that little step.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:16:52):
Yeah. Just
Katie Montgomery (01:16:52):
Have a virtual consultation. There's literally no, , requirement after that. You, if you decide, nope, don't [01:17:00] wanna do it, that's okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:01):
That's up to you. Try
Katie Montgomery (01:17:02):
It again later.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:02):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:17:02):
Yeah.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:04):
What else have we not talked about with EMDR that we wanna talk about? I know we talked about some things that we're like, do you wanna get to that? And I can't even remember what they are now. I
Katie Montgomery (01:17:11):
Should've been taking notes. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:12):
Should have been taking notes too. But what else, and I'm going through to make sure I have my notes in here too, but, , what else have we not talked about with, that would be super important for people that this is a new topic to them, a new option to them, , that we haven't addressed already?
Katie Montgomery (01:17:26):
Yeah. I think, , with EMDR, , it can only be [01:17:30] done with somebody who is EMDR trained.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:32):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:17:32):
, so that's really important to, to ask your therapist, you know, are you trained in EMDR? Mm-Hmm. And even if they're not, , they might have a different trauma processing modality that they use or technique that they use. Mm-Hmm. And that's okay too. , EMDR isn't the end all be all for every single person. Mm-Hmm.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:53):
If,
Katie Montgomery (01:17:53):
If other people wanna try something different, that's fine.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:56):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:17:56):
I particularly, I'm a particular fan -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:17:59):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:17:59):
Of, of EMDR. [01:18:00] But, , let's see. So make sure they're trained. , Ask as many questions about the process. , Don't feel shy about asking, I think is, is something that I might recommend. Mm-Hmm. , there's been, I think, I think we've talked, we talked a little bit about the resurg - or not resurgence, but, , more social media - uh-huh. About EMDR, [01:18:30] more, more airtime about it.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:32):
Mm-Hmm.
Katie Montgomery (01:18:34):
There's some other s - I don't know. Yeah. I'm trying to think of anything else that's coming up. Like, there's some other trauma processing techniques that are becoming popular as well.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:18:45):
Okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:18:46):
So I think it would be interesting to see how EMDR stacks up to some of the newer stuff. And I, and I only say that because we learn more about the brain and the body and how trauma affects everything. Yeah. Every year. Yeah. [01:19:00] Every year we're learning more and more.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:01):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:19:01):
You know?
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:02):
And so - Which is incredible.
Katie Montgomery (01:19:03):
Yeah. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:03):
And it's
Katie Montgomery (01:19:04):
Great. It's great. So -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:05):
Uh-Huh.
Katie Montgomery (01:19:06):
, Let's see, what else about EMDR? I don't know if I have anything else.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:11):
And we covered a lot.
Katie Montgomery (01:19:12):
I know.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:12):
So we might be good. <Laugh> Yeah. <Laugh> And I can always put stuff out later if, if you think of it later too. But no, I mean, this has been incredibly insightful for me. Has it? I'm so glad. Oh, yeah. Like getting into the specifics of, like, how it actually works, what people, , are dealing with, you know, things I didn't even think about, you know? [01:19:30] Addiction being one of them. Something like that. A boss, you know? A bo - yes. Yeah. There's just, just so much. Yeah. Yeah. , Okay. So how do you, how do you <laugh> decompress after a full day of teaching and - Good question. Working with people? Like what's your way of, , kind of pushing the reset button or -
Katie Montgomery (01:19:50):
Uh-Huh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:19:50):
You know, taking care of yourself?
Katie Montgomery (01:19:53):
Yeah. So I'd say I'm probably, I probably get on TikTok a little too much. That's probably not the best thing for me.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:00):
[01:20:00] I mean, everybody does. You're in good company. <Laugh>
Katie Montgomery (01:20:03):
I might do a little bit too much of that. , So I think some of the things that help regulate me and ground me are. I, I love hanging out with my son. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:13):
Although
Katie Montgomery (01:20:13):
He's 13 and probably doesn't wanna hang out with me nearly as much as I have.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:18):
Getting to that point of wanting to go. He's,
Katie Montgomery (01:20:20):
He's like, "I'm good, mom." Yeah. "I'm, I'm all set. You, I'm, I'm gonna go." Okay. , So, , but my, my friends, , you know, my girlfriends [01:20:30] are my absolute lifelines. Mm-Hmm. I have such wonderful friends. Love that. , They are just, , incredible.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:38):
So important in life. Incredible people around you.
Katie Montgomery (01:20:40):
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Wonderful women. I just, ugh, I just love them so much. Yeah. , they keep me very grounded and, , they help me regulate a lot. Mm-Hmm. And so I'm able to do that - Good. With them, which is great. , I like to travel, so I always have a trip planned.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:58):
Perfect.
Katie Montgomery (01:20:58):
Yeah. I love - Speaking my
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:20:59):
Language.
Katie Montgomery (01:21:00):
[01:21:00] Yes. Mm-hmm. I always have a trip planned.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:01):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:21:03):
I, I just have to. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:04):
There's so
Katie Montgomery (01:21:04):
Much to explore. There's so many people to meet.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:06):
Oh, I know. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:21:07):
I, there's so many people I want to talk to, so all around the world. , So I like to travel. , And I just, lately, I've been a real homebody, which is kind of interesting. It's been a change in the last few years becoming kind of a homebody when I used to really like to go out a lot. , I still like to go out.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:24):
Perimenopause?
Katie Montgomery (01:21:25):
But yeah, I think so. I do think it's perimenopause. I do. I'll go out, but not very far. Right. [01:21:30] But not very far. Yeah. And not for very long. Yeah. Yeah. , So I like to kind of, I love to read. Yeah. , my, one of my favorite things to do is to read. I love buying new books. <Laugh>
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:40):
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Are you a fiction or a non-fiction?
Katie Montgomery (01:21:42):
I do both. Okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:42):
But
Katie Montgomery (01:21:42):
Predominantly literary fiction. Okay. Yeah. Like I, yeah. Yeah. I love a, I love a bookstore. , I love hanging out with my family. Yeah. Talking to my family. I, you know, I have a great, I have two brothers and two fantastic sisters-in-law and my dad and - Love it. , So yeah, so I have a, I have a really great community.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:21:59):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:21:59):
Which is really [01:22:00] helpful. -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:01):
What are some of you. So you mentioned bookstores. Yes, absolutely. You don't go very far, but we need to go out. Where do you like to go? What are some of your favorites in Casey that you wanna shout out?
Katie Montgomery (01:22:09):
Ooh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:10):
Shop, eat, drink.
Katie Montgomery (01:22:11):
Oh, okay. So, yeah. Ooh. Okay. Hold on. Let me think.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:15):
Put you on the spot. It happens to everybody.
Katie Montgomery (01:22:17):
I know. It's so hard. And I'm so uncool now that I don't know what all the good stuff is like downtown.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:22):
You can just go to my page and follow along. I think
Katie Montgomery (01:22:24):
I'm gonna have to because every time I am, I come across your stuff, I'm like, well, I gotta go over here. I gotta go to the crossroads. I gotta go to the west [01:22:30] bottom.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:30):
And by the way, when people ask me like, "Oh, what's your favorite restaurant? Or what's the, you know, your favorite that you went to recently?" I'm like, "I have no idea." I can't remember. I don't remember. And I have to go over here. I'm like, "You might know if you saw my latest post, you know."
Katie Montgomery (01:22:43):
Okay. So I, I don't know of a lot of new places because I'm -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:46):
Sure. That's okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:22:47):
Yikes. They
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:48):
Can be old favorites. Okay. It doesn't matter. Old
Katie Montgomery (01:22:49):
Favorites. , My favorite Mexican place, , is in Westport, Rudy's Tanampa, which is -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:22:55):
Ah, amazing.
Katie Montgomery (01:22:56):
Yep. Best. They're absolutely best. Classic. It's been my favorite for 25 years. I absolutely love it. , [01:23:00] My favorite, , Italian deli sandwich place is Bella Napoli in Brookside. Yeah. Great one. , Carmen's is my, if I really want, like, to indulge in some good Ital- Italian food, Carmen's in Brookside.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:12):
I haven't been to Carmen's. I gotta go. You have to get - Okay, I'm adding it to my list.
Katie Montgomery (01:23:16):
Gambasada
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:17):
Lancha,
Katie Montgomery (01:23:17):
Which is bacon wrapped shmp
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:19):
And
Katie Montgomery (01:23:19):
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Diablo
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:20):
Sauce. Yum. Yum, yum, yum, yum. Okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:23:23):
Get out of
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:23):
Town. Okay. Maybe this weekend.
Katie Montgomery (01:23:24):
Fantastic. , let's see, what else? So, yeah, bookstores. , I love [01:23:30] to go out to eat. Yeah. And I, I go out to eat alone a lot. Yeah. Because I don't really have anybody else to go out with. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:35):
Actually like to go out by myself. I like to go, like, sit at the bar and have a glass of wine and - Yes. I do that all the time. A lot of times I have my laptop and -
Katie Montgomery (01:23:42):
I bring my
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:42):
Book. I'm working.
Katie Montgomery (01:23:43):
Yeah. I bring my book. Yeah, I think it's great. I just sit and eat. Yeah. I mean, I travel alone a lot. Mm Hmm. I mean, I just, yeah, I kind of spend a lot of time alone. But - Yeah. , So yeah. And I live in Prairie Village right now, so I have a particular affinity for, you know, the, the Corinth shops because I live
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:57):
Right there. Yeah. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:23:59):
, And it's just, it's
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:23:59):
Super - [01:24:00] Somebody gets chocolate in there. To just
Katie Montgomery (01:24:00):
Walk. You know, I love a library.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:03):
Yeah.
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Katie Montgomery (01:24:03):
, I'm trying to think of other places that are hitting me, but -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:07):
Or anything that you have not checked off your bucket list that you absolutely have been wanting to do here that you haven't done?
Katie Montgomery (01:24:15):
There are so many restaurants I wanna try.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:16):
Yeah. Me too. You can't get to them all. There's
Katie Montgomery (01:24:19):
So many restaurants
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:20):
I
Katie Montgomery (01:24:20):
Wanna try.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:20):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:24:21):
Yeah. And I, I think I have a list on my
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:24):
Phone where it is. Well, we can compare notes after. <Laugh> Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:24:27):
Because every time my clients come in, they're like, "Oh, we [01:24:30] went to such and such a place." And, and I see both.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:32):
And you're like adding?
Katie Montgomery (01:24:32):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:33):
I see
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Katie Montgomery (01:24:33):
Individuals and, and couples too. Yeah. And the couples will be like, "Oh, do you remember, do you remember when we went to such and such a place?" And I'm thinking, just hold on one second. Yes, hang on. Yeah. What was the service like?m. How was it go? What was the menu? , But so I get a lot of recommendations from them. But then by the time I get home, I just think,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:50):
Whew.
Katie Montgomery (01:24:51):
Yeah. I'm pooped. I'm gonna just have a seat and order it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:24:53):
So Amy Poehler does something on her podcast which I like, which is what are you reading or watching right now that's really making you feel [01:25:00] good or making you laugh? Oh. I like that question. Oh,
Katie Montgomery (01:25:02):
That's a great
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:03):
Question.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:03):
Mm-Hmm. Making me laugh.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:04):
Make you laugh, make you whatever. Or
Katie Montgomery (01:25:06):
Make me feel good. Okay. So -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:07):
Make you feel good. Anything.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:09):
I'm doing. <Laugh> This doesn't make me laugh. I mean, sometimes maybe, but I'm doing my fifth re watch of The Sopranos.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:16):
Oh my gosh. I find this fascinating. I have never watched anything like more than twice in my life, and it might be like Meet the Fockers or something like that. So I'm very intrigued with people. Yeah. And speaking of her, she has people who are like, "Ugh, I'm re-watching, you know, Parks and Rec [01:25:30] for like the 10th time or something." Yeah. And I'm so intrigued with that.
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Katie Montgomery (01:25:33):
Yeah. I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:33):
It does something for you.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:35):
Something. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:35):
And
Katie Montgomery (01:25:36):
I'm not a re-reader. I won't reread anything. Once I read something, I won't re-read it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:40):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:40):
But for whatever reason, there are a few different series where I just want to re-watch them. And The Sopranos is one of them.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:47):
Love it.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:48):
Also, I love Real Housewives.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:51):
Which one? All of them. All of them?
Katie Montgomery (01:25:52):
<Laugh> All of
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:54):
Them. Perfect.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:54):
Yes. So I, I said -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:56):
Have you been into Salt Lake City lately?
Katie Montgomery (01:25:57):
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Oh,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:25:58):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:25:58):
Yeah. Yeah. Once they're new, are, are they, [01:26:00] is there new one out already? I
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:01):
Don't know, actually. Yeah. I'm behind. I would need to catch up, but -
Katie Montgomery (01:26:04):
Oh, okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:04):
I was always a, , Beverly Hills girl.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:06):
Oh, okay.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:07):
Me too. But
Katie Montgomery (01:26:07):
Also Jersey, there's just something - Oh,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:09):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:10):
Something so -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:11):
They have such like distinct East Coast - I just love it. Like demeanors. I
Katie Montgomery (01:26:15):
Love them all.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:15):
Yeah. I,
Katie Montgomery (01:26:16):
I, they all make me laugh.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:17):
I love it.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:18):
Atlanta makes me laugh so hard. Jersey is just something.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:22):
Something else. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:23):
So yeah, I do love some reality TV, , to decompress sometimes and just kind of turn off -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:29):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:29):
The brain [01:26:30] a little bit, , which is great. , Let's see. What am I reading? I, I read multiple things at once. I read a lot of books at once. I usually have something going, , that is professional. Sure. You know, like a psych - some sort of psychology book or some sort of trauma book. Yeah. , right now, I am. Am I listening to one?
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:52):
I'm an audiobook girl.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:53):
Yeah. I do love an audiobook. I can't remember what I'm listening to. I must not have been listening to it this week.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:26:59):
That's okay.
Katie Montgomery (01:26:59):
That's okay. [01:27:00] , Otherwise I'm reading fiction.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:03):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:04):
And, , like, really, like, literary stuff that -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:08):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:08):
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You know. Good
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:09):
Little escape
Katie Montgomery (01:27:10):
For
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:10):
You.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:10):
It is. Mm-Hmm. I just go elsewhere, so. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:13):
I love it.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:14):
, But what makes me laugh most of the time are just people on TikTok and Instagram Reels are hilarious.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:24):
That's what I say. I'm like, I know social media is very detrimental. It's so toxic. On the flip side. But
Katie Montgomery (01:27:28):
My -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:29):
It is so funny. God, it's
Katie Montgomery (01:27:30):
[01:27:30] Hilarious.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:30):
Yeah. Isn't that
Katie Montgomery (01:27:31):
So funny?
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:31):
People are so witty. We never knew how many people in the world were so witty.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:35):
Exactly.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:36):
So entertaining.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:37):
I cannot. So my, my brother and my sister-in-law -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:39):
It's good for the soul.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:40):
Yes. We, we send reels back and forth to each other. Mm-Hmm. We do too. We'll be in bed for, I mean, in an hour just - Dying. Howling with laughter because people are just unmatched. They really are. They are so funny. And I just -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:53):
And around the world.
Katie Montgomery (01:27:54):
I love people. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:54):
They're
Katie Montgomery (01:27:55):
Hilarious.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:55):
I love
Katie Montgomery (01:27:56):
It. So, I guess the other thing that's making me smile at this point is World Cup,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:27:59):
Right? Oh my gosh. I [01:28:00] know. I totally
Katie Montgomery (01:28:00):
Forgot.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:00):
There's so much. And like, today, because this will come out later, but today is the day that Netherlands is out and about. Yes. Have you been watching all of that? Yes. Like, it is wild. Yes. Like, I've sent it to my family in Chicago, and I'm like, You should see what's happening here. It's like, this is rainy. It's insane. I know.
Katie Montgomery (01:28:14):
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And I love it so much. Yeah. And I love how everybody's just really celebrating, and the energy of Kansas City right now is just,
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:20):
It's exciting. I think people are not gonna want it to end, you know? It's done something for this country that I'm, it's like - It's - I am like, oh no, what happens after July? What happens [01:28:30] after nobody goes? You know? I know. What
Katie Montgomery (01:28:32):
Happens
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:32):
After
Katie Montgomery (01:28:32):
All of the teams go home and
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:34):
There's
Katie Montgomery (01:28:34):
No more World Cup? Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:35):
But it has made a definite, like, permanent imprint on this country, like, this whole event. Yeah. Which is cool. I think so. But we've had it in our lifetime, so. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:28:41):
I think it's really exciting.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:42):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:28:42):
And what also makes me smile is that the, , women's World Cup is next year
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:48):
In Brazil. Yeah. Oh
Katie Montgomery (01:28:48):
My gosh. And I can't wait for that because I love watching women's
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:52):
Soccer. So you've been to a current game?
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Katie Montgomery (01:28:53):
I have.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:54):
Good. Yeah. Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:28:55):
So fun.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:55):
It's the best.
Katie Montgomery (01:28:56):
Absolute. So
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:28:57):
Much energy and such. They did such an incredible job. Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, well, this [01:29:00] has been so fun.
Katie Montgomery (01:29:01):
This has been great. Thank you.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:02):
I feel like I need to go to one of your classes and, like, go sit in. Please do. And just, like, absorb what maybe, like, a good one. Oh, didn't talk
Katie Montgomery (01:29:07):
About positive psychology.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:08):
I forgot. Oh, talk about it.
Katie Montgomery (01:29:09):
Okay. So positive psychology is a class -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:10):
That's what it was. I was like, "What was one of the things that you're gonna go back to?" I teach
Katie Montgomery (01:29:13):
That in the spring semester at Park.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:29:15):
Okay.
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Katie Montgomery (01:29:15):
And it is so great. So, , just super, very, very quick, , nickel tour of it is positive psychology doesn't ask what's wrong with you. It asks what's right. So positive psychology looks at strengths. So [01:29:30] it's a strengths-based practice, I guess, of working through your stuff, right? Yeah. So we look at, okay, well, maybe your response to that was considered maladaptive, quote unquote. , Which means maybe you wouldn't wanna repeat that, but I bet you did that because it kept you alive and it's, you know, a coping
(01:29:54):
Strategy and all of that. And it's just super fascinating. , One of the best, , things that I make my students do [01:30:00] Because I make them do a gratitude journal once a week. Mm-Hmm. And every single one of them at the beginning of every semester, gratitude journal. <Laugh> Gratitude journal. And they're just huffing and puffing and mumbling about it. Yeah. And by the end of the semester, every single one of them says, "This was actually my favorite thing of the entire semester." Yeah. "I've Absolutely loved it. I'm implementing this in my life." Gratitude, because gratitude will change your life.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:26):
Do not underestimate the
Katie Montgomery (01:30:27):
Part of that. 100%. Yeah. Gratitude will change your life. Mm-Hmm. So [01:30:30] one practical tip to walk away from this is if you have a really terrible day or you're feeling really awful, make a gratitude list.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:37):
Love it.
Katie Montgomery (01:30:37):
Make a gratitude list.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:38):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:30:38):
Yeah. You'll feel better. It's really a positive psychology proven point.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:42):
Yep. Yep. Great reminder. Well, that's a good note to end on then.
Katie Montgomery (01:30:45):
Yeah. Nice positive in -
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:46):
Yeah.
Katie Montgomery (01:30:47):
Into the, to the conversation.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (01:30:48):
Well, this has been incredible. I am so excited to have everybody here, , to hear what we talked about because, you know, I feel that if there's something that I'm really interested in, clearly there's other people who wanna know about it too. Oh, great. And to enlighten people [01:31:00] with EMDR and you specifically here and how they can connect with you.
Katie Montgomery (01:31:05):
Well, I am thrilled. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And, , please reach out if you have any questions. Will do. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks so much, Mindy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (01:31:14):
Thank you so much for tuning in and finding inspiration in these incredible stories. If you love what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Leave a rating and share the show to help these Kansas City voices reach even more listeners.
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