Mindy Hargesheimer (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. I have a wonderful Kansas City nonprofit in the studio today. Um, I have Kim Harbur, who is the co-founder of Gift of Life and I have Kirsten Finn, who is a program director for Gift of Life. This is a nonprofit here that, um, has been around for almost 30 years and it is not often that I can say that I am talking to someone whose job is literally saving lives. Um, we get into the power of being an organ donor. We talk about stories, transplant stories with Kim, the co-founder having her own personal family story, um, about their five month old who needed a liver transplant. And we talk about how that led her and her husband to start this nonprofit in KC, which has since spread its wings, um, coast to coast across the country. And we talk about how you can get involved, become a donor, to volunteer, um, to engage with them in ways that literally can make an impact on helping to save lives.
(00:59):
So be sure to send this episode to anyone who, um, might be in need of a transplant, who might be looking for a new way to give back. Um, and it's a great opportunity to talk to your family about the opportunity for you guys to talk openly about what it means to become an organ donor. So I hope you enjoy this episode.
(01:27):
All right. Well, welcome to the podcast studio. This is really, um, exciting for me. Uh, you guys had reached out to me, which is so great, um, because I love learning about new organizations and really featuring, um, nonprofits here and all the good causes and everything that's happening out in KC. Um, so I'm super excited to share this information with everybody. And do you guys wanna go ahead and introduce yourselves? And then I wanted to go over some quick stats to put out there really quickly that I thought would be kind of really interesting for people to hear about the topic that we're gonna talk about.
Kim Harbur (01:57):
Sure. My name is Kim Harbur. I'm the co-founder and director of education for Gift of Life.
Kirsten Finn (02:03):
Perfect.
Mindy Hargesheimer (02:03):
I'm
Kirsten Finn (02:03):
Kirsten Finn and I'm the Transplant Mentors Program Director at Gift of Life.
Mindy Hargesheimer (02:07):
Perfect. Okay. So the reason I said I wanted to kind of, um, start with some stats, which of course I found through your organization as I was learning all about the things and then we'll get into the backstory of how everything formed. Um, but let's start with the fact that over 110,000 Americans are waiting for a life-saving transplant right now. Is that right?
Kim Harbur (02:27):
Yeah. The, the, the list can fluctuate a little bit. Sure. It kind of goes up and down, but if you think of Arrowhead, Arrowhead Stadium and Kauffman Stadium - . Being filled up at the same time, that's about how many people are waiting on that waiting list.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (02:41):
I read that and that was mind blowing for me. . To visualize that. Right. And think about that. Right? Okay. About 2,500 or so live in Kansas and Missouri. . So that's of course across the country. Um, 17 - That are wait -
Kim Harbur (02:52):
They're waiting.
Mindy Hargesheimer (02:53):
Waiting. Yeah. Waiting. Thank you.
Kim Harbur (02:54):
Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (02:55):
Um, roughly 17 people die every day waiting for an organ for a transplant. Um, one donor can save eight lives and impact over 75 more.
Kim Harbur (03:07):
Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (03:07):
That's huge. And then over half waiting are from communities of color. So that's pretty profound. Mm hmm. Um, okay. So we're gona get into this because I think that this is like - Hey, thanks for
Kim Harbur (03:17):
Doing your research.
Mindy Hargesheimer (03:18):
Of course. No, that's exactly what I do. That's good. Um, naturally, I wanna know everything, you know, going on and, um, clearly you guys are gonna tell, you know, your stories about how you're involved, why you're involved, how this began. . What'd you say 28 years ago? 28 years ago. Okay. So why don't you go ahead and start with that story to kind of share how Gift of Life came to be.
And I think what everybody needs to know is that this is a great call to action podcast episode because you can go and immediately do something about it to impact someone, save a life, et cetera. So let's get into your story.
Kim Harbur (03:53):
Well, um, I'm from Kansas City and so is my husband and we, I had a completely different career prior to this. For 23 years, I owned a dance studio, which is very different. All ballerinas turn into organ donor advocates, I think, don't
Mindy Hargesheimer (04:08):
They?
Kim Harbur (04:08):
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That's what I've heard. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I've heard. And so, um, through what happened was we had our first child was born and he was born perfectly healthy. . And 16 months later, our second child came along and his name is Luke and he was born with liver failure. His bile ducts did not develop from birth and that throws toxins into your system and he went into liver failure as a baby. So
we went on the national waiting list at five months old and then he did receive a life saving liver transplant at 11 months old and he will be 31, that's the good part in July. Yeah. So it'll be 30 years, June 20th, he received his transplant. And so through that experience, um, no one, we, we reflected back on our own lives. No one had ever talked to us about organ donation and we kind of get around in the community.
(04:58):
. And so we decided, my husband decided that he came to me with the idea of starting a nonprofit and I said, okay. I knew nothing about a nonprofit. He didn't either. Sure. And so we started with the two of us and we put a little bit of our own money in. We developed a board of directors and on our way. Most of the time when someone starts a nonprofit, it lasts 10 years. Okay. That's about what grassroots nonprofits do. We are now on our 28th year -
Mindy Hargesheimer (05:27):
Props to you guys.
Kim Harbur (05:28):
We started with the two of us last year, almost 360 individuals volunteered for our organization. Mm hmm. And we now have, uh, so eight employee, I have to count, eight employee, eight employees.
Mindy Hargesheimer (05:41):
Enough to start losing track.
Kim Harbur (05:42):
Yes.
Mindy Hargesheimer (05:43):
It's a good thing.
Kim Harbur (05:43):
Yes. And so first six years we officed out of our home and then we moved into office space in, uh, 2004.
Mindy Hargesheimer (05:49):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (05:50):
And we still remain in that same office space today. Yeah. So that's how it all started.
Mindy Hargesheimer (05:55):
Yeah. So, okay, so he's 31 today.
Kim Harbur (05:58):
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Yeah, he'll be 31.
Mindy Hargesheimer (05:59):
Yep. Did you know at the time, like at the time of birth, or was it a few months later that you guys had figured out like how, how does that, how did that look then? How does that look now? I'm sure it's different probably case by case, but -
Kim Harbur (06:10):
Yeah, so it's seven weeks old, we, we had him in the backyard and on the patio and our neighbor came over and she said, "Oh, he's jaundice. You know, all my kids were jaundice when they were born." Now there's different kinds of jaundice. There's the newborn jaundice and there's the jaundice that lingers a little later. You don't want the linger later one. Okay. And that's what we had. Okay. So the next day we went to the pediatrician and she diagnosed him with something's wrong with his liver. . She then called us that afternoon and said, "You need to get up from your work and go to Children's Mercy. I've already called. They know you're coming." . So we went down there and that's when it all started at seven weeks old.
Mindy Hargesheimer (06:46):
Okay. Got it. Yeah. So today what you guys do is you're advocating for people to become an organ donor and then to get connected with donors as well or what exactly are all the different parts that you guys play with? So we do
Kim Harbur (07:01):
Education, mentoring and advocacy.
Mindy Hargesheimer (07:04):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (07:04):
So the, the program Lifesavers, and I'm gonna have Kirsten talk about her program. Sure. But Lifesavers is a high school in - person classroom presentation - . Where we go into a hundred high schools, a 60 mile radius from about here -
Kirsten Finn (07:22):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (07:23):
And we educate them about the question, do you wanna be a donor? So when they're asked that question, when they get a license or state ID, they understand what is the question asking and now I've got information about it to make an informed decision. . We really don't s - ask them to be donors. Okay. We don't persuade them to be donors. This is information so they make a right - A personal decision. Yeah. And that program started in three high schools in 20- 2003, we're in 100 high schools now with our program. Okay. And then we did an online version of that as well that actually is free. All of our programs are free of charge. . So the, the online program is offered, you, it, it can be nationally, but it's been used as well. And then we have the mentoring program - Yeah. And I'm gonna have Kirsten talk about that because she really runs that program.
(08:10):
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Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (08:10):
I'm excited to hear about that. Yeah, you wanna go ahead and share some more about that? About
Kirsten Finn (08:14):
The mentoring program?
Mindy Hargesheimer (08:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
Kirsten Finn (08:16):
Yes. So it started in 2008. . Um, after they were really successful with the education program, they really identified a need, um, to support the people that were going through the transplant process. Yeah. And so we are now dealing with 48 hospitals - Okay. Uh, nationwide. We're continuing to expand and outreach to hospitals where we have recruited mentors who are, uh, fully trained and vetted by us. . Uh, there's caregiver mentors, mentors for transplant recipients, living donor mentors for those considering living donation. Okay. And so we get people coming in to volunteer to be mentors and, uh, they're one year post-transplant at least and need a referral from their transplant center that they're in a good space - . To mentor someone. And then we, um, go through a number of different, um, practices to match them up with somebody who most closely matches their circumstances. Okay.
(09:14):
And so this person can then walk alongside that person in their transplant journey. Um, there's been several peer reviewed articles that clearly demonstrate that having a mentor while going through such a life altering procedure - . Um, it significantly improves outcomes - Okay. For transplant recipients. And so transplant mentors is support for those families, um, and it's really important we make the caregivers stronger. . That's really huge thing as well for somebody going through transplant.
Mindy Hargesheimer (09:44):
No kidding. Absolutely. So - Emotional support.
Kim Harbur (09:46):
Put some context on that too for your listeners, especially there's 6,600 hospitals in the country, just we have 6,600 hospitals in the United States of America. Out of those, only 250 do transplants. And when I say transplants, I'm talking about what we call solid organ transplant, heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, pancreas, and the small intestine. . So there aren't that many when you think about how many hospitals are out there. And we're very lucky here in Kansas City, we've got four. Yeah. We have the University of Kansas health system, St. Luke's health system, Children's Mercy, of course, and then, uh, research medical center that does kidneys. So we're very blessed to have the, that type of care at our fingertips.
Mindy Hargesheimer (10:33):
No kidding. It, are there 250 or so because there's a lot of red tape to go through? Is it a choice they make? Is it a funding or is that a - Well, I mean - Is that a loaded question?
Kim Harbur (10:43):
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It's, it's a specialty. It's a, it's a... So you've got to have a transplant surgeon. . You know, there's not a lot of those running around, you know? Okay. And then you have to have, you, and you have to have a place where the protocol can all be put in place. Organ donation and transplantation has more policies and procedures around it than any other section of medicine.
Mindy Hargesheimer (11:05):
Interesting. So
Kim Harbur (11:06):
It has a lot of dos and don'ts. I mean,
Mindy Hargesheimer (11:10):
Medicine - Is it the risk factor?
Kim Harbur (11:11):
Medicine does in general. Well, I think part of it is you're talking about a sad story.
Mindy Hargesheimer (11:17):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (11:17):
A donor story is usually wrapped, not always, but often wrapped around a sudden loss - Sure. Of a loved one. Very sad. . And that arc from the donor over to the recipient must be loaded - . With compassion and care and the right way to do that. It has to be filled with thoughtfulness and ethics. Yeah. All of those things. Yeah. I sat on the national board, the United Network of Oregon Sharing, which really houses that long database and we set policy and procedure for those 250 hospitals. Mm hmm. And it's just really important that all those pieces are in place. And it's expensive to set up a transplant center in a hospital.
Mindy Hargesheimer (12:04):
Sure. Yeah, I imagine. Sure. So does that mean that you guys are impacting people, uh, coast to coast in all of these hospitals or are you focused on Kansas and Missouri and the four?
Kim Harbur (12:14):
Well, we started off in the four hospitals - Okay. For mentoring. Okay. And then as that program... Actually, be honest with you, when COVID came -
Mindy Hargesheimer (12:24):
Uh-huh.
Kim Harbur (12:25):
I, I said to the staff, "Well, why can't we just go nationally because we can reach out on the phone or - . You know, now with Zoom and team, you know, all the ways we have to connect, it's not just by going to the hospital and visiting someone." Yeah. So that's when it started kind of mushrooming.
Mindy Hargesheimer (12:42):
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Okay.
Kim Harbur (12:42):
That has become more of a national program. Okay. That's national. Our Lifesavers program is more focused in that hundred, uh, those 100 schools in a 60 mile radius. Right. 'Cause you can't put boots on the ground all over the world, you know? Sure. That's just too hard. Yeah. That's why we then folded it into an online program, which c - actually can be used nationally.
Mindy Hargesheimer (13:02):
Absolutely. Okay. So going back to, um, you know, the high schoolers and the, you know, informing them to make their own decision about it, what do you find, whether it's, I guess, really a high schooler or of any age, are there any, um, maybe misconceptions about what people think it means to check that on your driver's license? Is that where you should begin by checking on your driver's license? And of course I told you, um, in doing my prep for this, I went onto your site, I became - That's great. An official donor. I registered, I sent it to my family. Good for you. Um, yeah, because I mean, I've, I've personally always been an organ donor. . Um, but, so therefore I'm not someone who's had any kind of, uh, question mark with it, but people do. . So what are those question marks that you might want to talk about for people who are like, "Ooh, I'm too scared.
(13:52):
I have to face the idea of death or what that looks like. " Well,
Kim Harbur (13:55):
I think especially with high school students, they're not going to die, right? They just aren't because they're young. They're, that's just not top of mind. Yeah. But as I share with them in the classroom, they're going to die someday. We all do. . We're right now we're living our life cycle, but we don't know when that cycle is going to change - Right. Or, or stop. Yeah. And this is one good thing sometimes that comes out of that sad story. There are students that say, "But these belong to me, my organs are mine. I don't have to give them away." No, you don't. . If you feel that way, you're not -
Mindy Hargesheimer (14:32):
We are not here to convince you. You
Kim Harbur (14:33):
Know, some feel that organ donation is interrupting their spiritual pathway of dying. . If you feel that way, it's not for you. Yeah. Some see it as the greatest act of humanity. It's a very different viewpoint. . But I think most of it is they just haven't learned about it. . They're not educated about it. The family hasn't talked about it. And so we're, that's the piece that's missing nationally - Okay. In the, in the whole conversation of organ donation. . And, and that's one of the things that we bring to the forefront. I mean, we've educated a half a million high school students over the years. Huge. So now they're parents, right? Right. And then they're, their kids get so and so forth. So Kansas City has one of the highest organ donor rates in the nation. Thanks to you guys. And, and part of it is the work of gift of life.
Mindy Hargesheimer (15:19):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (15:19):
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Part of it is we have four good transplant hospitals here in Kansas City - . And we also have what's called an organ procurement organization here in Kansas City. They're the group that steps into a hospital when there's a donor and they facilitate deciding and testing that donor what can be donated and then they're in charge of transporting that organ - . To where the recipient is. There's about 56 of those are called organ procurement organizations and ours here in Westwood, Kansas ranks in probably the top five for best practices. So we have all that going for us. Right. It's not just us, it's all, it's the team effort
Mindy Hargesheimer (15:57):
Across
Kim Harbur (15:58):
The community.
Mindy Hargesheimer (15:59):
So you had mentioned, and I had this, of what can be donated and is it two categories, organs and tissue? And you mentioned organs, just to repeat that, heart, kidneys, liver, lungs, pancreas, small intestine. And then tissues, eyes, skin, bones, heart valves, veins, connective vis - tissue. Mm hmm. Um, when someone decides that they wanna become an organ donor, and maybe I went through this and forgot what I checked, but do you decide it's like all or nothing or are there certain categories of what you can decide to be - That's a
Kirsten Finn (16:26):
Good
Kim Harbur (16:26):
Question.
Mindy Hargesheimer (16:26):
A donor for?
Kim Harbur (16:28):
Well, when we check it here in Kansas, uh, we're saying we wanna donate everything.
Mindy Hargesheimer (16:34):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (16:34):
We wanna donate everything. . Now, when someone is a minor and they pass away, their parent or guardian would make the final decision for them to be or not to be a donor regardless of what they have on their driver's license or what their age is.
Mindy Hargesheimer (16:47):
Sure.
Kim Harbur (16:48):
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And then when someone, let's say someone says, "I don't wanna be a donor."
Mindy Hargesheimer (16:51):
.
Kim Harbur (16:52):
Then there's no little heart on their driver's license or whatever the symbol the state might have, ours has a heart. Then if they can be a donor when they pass away, the decision falls back to their family to make that final decision on their behalf. That's why that conversation is, is so important. But when you check it on the license you're saying, "Please take whatever's healthy enough to be given to someone else."
Mindy Hargesheimer (17:17):
Right. So what can families be talking about to ensure that whether it's grandparents who might be closer to death or, you know, children coming into the family, but they wanna be, um, a part of this, um, what, how do you guide families to talk about this as a family? Um, like for example, we'll just use me. Mm hmm. My husband and we have two daughters that are nine and almost 12, um, is this a discussion that we should be having to educate them? Should I wait? What does that look like? Or is that just a personal decision?
Kirsten Finn (17:51):
I think, um, absolutely it's a conversation that's important to have. Yeah. Um, my twins, uh, are gonna be turning 16 in November and just recently going through their driver's education the conversation came up - . You know, and they both elected to be a donor, but they had that information in front of them so they could make a personal decision that reflected their values and what they wanted to do. Yeah. Um,
so I think families being open about that, I think, um, when a child dies or somebody dies and that decision has to be made, it puts an enormous amount of stress on the family if their intentions aren't clearly known. And so having conversations surrounding that can significantly reduce the stress of the decision making that has to take place or -
Mindy Hargesheimer (18:34):
Is it wrong to assume the majority of families might be taken aback by that? I mean, because not all of them are having those discussions today or obviously the work that you guys have been doing, maybe there's more that are doing that proactively than -
Kim Harbur (18:47):
I, I think there are, I think it's being more proactive, but, you know, our, our goal, our, our kind of message for, with the Lifesavers program, which was, is the high school program, is really about, um, the driver's license. Yeah. So we chose high school in particular. I think it can happen a little earlier. Mm hmm. I think it can happen on a less structured level, you know, planting the seed about it and then as they get a little bit older, keep, keep that conversation moving forward. Yeah.
Kirsten Finn (19:19):
You know,
Kim Harbur (19:19):
I have two friends that have lost 17 year old sons. One was a senior at Liberty High School and the other one was a junior at Shawnee Mission East. These stories happened a long time ago.
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Kirsten Finn (19:29):
.
Kim Harbur (19:29):
But I had both of those boys in class as freshmen and they came up to me afterwards. I've been in their home personally and they said, "Okay, we're gonna go home and tell our parents we wanna be an organ donor." . Never dreaming that these boys became organ donors so quickly. Yeah. So when these accidents happened and they called me and I went to the hospital and I stood at the foot of these young boys' feet in that intensive care unit, I said to myself, "I do not know how any family says yes in that moment." Sure. No way. But the parents, they were so glad they knew their decision ahead of time, they all became organ donors, but that moment as you were describing is so devastating - . Because a lot of times it's a sudden death. Right. And it's just too hard to wrap your head around it if you haven't thought about it before.
Mindy Hargesheimer (20:22):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (20:23):
Our, our little donor was eight. Yeah,
Mindy Hargesheimer (20:25):
I was gona say, can we hear a bit more about that? You can, you can find some on, online, of course, about that, but I'd love to hear your firsthand take - Yeah. On what that was like for you guys. He,
Kim Harbur (20:33):
He was an eight year old little boy from Olathe, Kansas. His name is Aaron. He just finished the third grade and they were on a camping trip in the Lake of the Ozarks and he suffered a severe allergic reaction that his airway started to close and eventually they had to fly him to Springfield
(20:52):
And then three days later he lost his brain activity and when he passed, his parents made the decision for him to be a donor and, um, he, his little body was quite healthy. Yeah. But his little brain function was gone. And when our brain stops, we die. . You know, there's nothing out there that reboots the brain. We don't have anything out there. Right. So that's... And, and I will say our donor family, which we have met them all - . Which you can imagine is a very emotional meeting. They donated... Well, they're, they're people of faith, so that their faith was very important to them. But secondly, they said to themselves, if we had a child waiting - . For a transplant, wouldn't we hope someone would be out there that would give? And that
Mindy Hargesheimer (21:38):
Was - It is such a weird juxtaposition - Yes. To think about both sides of it. Yes. And obviously you're speaking on behalf of the family. . Do most people meet the families that are donors or was that both something that you arranged?
Kim Harbur (21:52):
Well, ours was a little different because we had what's called a direct donation. So that means that families might... Let's say someone passes away and they're asked, "Do you know anyone that needs a
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transplant?" . They can say, "Oh, my, my neighbor, Jenny needs a new heart. Let's see if Kim's heart matches Jenny." That's called a direct donation.
Mindy Hargesheimer (22:14):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (22:15):
And that's what we had, because I had a little dancer mom at my dance studio - Uh-huh. Who went, who knew my son needed a liver and she went to their church. So she knew both stories. So that's a little bit of like - And that's how the story came - That's how the story came together.
Mindy Hargesheimer (22:30):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (22:30):
Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (22:31):
Very interesting.
Kim Harbur (22:31):
But now, I want, I want her to, I want Kirsten to talk about her son, because she had a bone marrow transplant, which is very different than a liver transplant.
Kirsten Finn (22:39):
Yeah. Um, so my son was diagnosed with a rare genetic condition, um, at the beginning of the pandemic in Canadam and they, they couldn't treat him, they couldn't give us a timeline to transplant and his condition is fatal within six months to two years of diagnosis without intervention. And so Connor actually had a cord blood transplant, um, which is a form of tissue, um, donation. . Um, people can donate their cord blood, um, from the placenta when they give birth. Right. And in fact, Kim and her team does an excellent job of educating about cord blood as well when they go out to the high schools. Um, so he received a transplant, uh, we had to go down to Minnesota to have that happen. . Um, and then, uh, it has halted the progression of his disease. Uh, he's still monitored every year to make sure that remains.
(23:27):
. And then monitored for perhaps developing the adult onset of the disease. Um, and so, um, thinking of gift of life, when I saw the job posting, one thing that drew me to gift of life, um, was the Harbor story and was Kim and Nate's dedication that no one would walk this path alone.
Mindy Hargesheimer (23:47):
Right.
Kirsten Finn (23:48):
And as a caregiver for somebody having gone through, not a solid organ, but another type of transplant supporting those families is deeply meaningful to me.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (23:56):
And he's how old today?
Kirsten Finn (23:57):
He was transplanted at the age four and he just turned 10.
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:01):
Okay. Oh my gosh, you guys probably have so many stories from people that you've been impacted, right?
Kim Harbur (24:06):
We do.
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:07):
Yeah. We
Kim Harbur (24:08):
Do. It's storytelling on steroids at our place.
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:11):
No kidding. Some fireside chats, right?
Kim Harbur (24:13):
Yeah, exactly.
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:14):
Um, so I, I also read, you have something called the 10 truths. Wanna talk a little bit about that? Some stuck out to me.
Kim Harbur (24:22):
Go ahead.
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:22):
Okay. Um, 95% of people support the idea of donation, but only 60% are, are registered. . Do you think that that's a lot to do with just this, reading the word? I do. I do. Removing the fear or anxiety.
Kim Harbur (24:36):
And that's a national stat.
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:38):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (24:39):
So, you know, ours is quite a bit higher here in Kansas City, which is great,
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Mindy Hargesheimer (24:42):
But - Yes, right. Back to that. Um,
Kim Harbur (24:43):
That is a national stat. .
Mindy Hargesheimer (24:46):
Okay. Most major religion support donation. They do. Do you see that where people are perhaps misled or just don't know if that's something that they should be concerned
Kim Harbur (24:55):
About? Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, you know, they, I think if you want your body to remain whole and that's important to you, again, organ donation is not for you. . All funeral requests and we as a society have gotten quite creative with funerals, you know, over the years, haven't we?
Mindy Hargesheimer (25:14):
With a lot of things, yeah.
Kim Harbur (25:14):
With a lot of things. So all, and I'm here to say all funeral request - . Can be honored and that person can still be an o - an organ donor. And I think that's a large misconception. Okay. If they want an open casket or how does it work with cremation or whatever the desire,
Mindy Hargesheimer (25:31):
You know - Sure.
Kim Harbur (25:31):
The request is.
Mindy Hargesheimer (25:33):
Yeah. Okay. Um, donor families do not pay anything.
Kim Harbur (25:38):
Right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (25:38):
So once - So the other family receiving it would be the ones paying.
Kim Harbur (25:42):
So once the family, the donor family signs all the paperwork - . To move forward with organ donation, there is no cost - Okay. To the donor family for the surgical removal of their loved one's organs. It is an operation in an operating room. . And, but have, uh, if they're trying to decide or they're not sure or they're paying. Yeah. But once they've made that decision and it's a clear one, then there's no cost to the family.
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Mindy Hargesheimer (26:15):
Okay. We talked about, talked to your family about it, that the driver's license alone isn't always enough. Right. Um, but donation decisions are based on strict medical criteria. . So I think you must be in a hospital. Correct. You cannot be at a car accident site up. But I do think
Kim Harbur (26:31):
That is important to mention because I
Mindy Hargesheimer (26:33):
Don't
Kim Harbur (26:33):
Think a lot of people don't know that. Okay. They don't understand that.
Mindy Hargesheimer (26:37):
Yeah. So do you wanna kind of clear up some
Kim Harbur (26:39):
Of that? Everyone has to be in a hospital setting. So there's three types of donors. There's the living donor - . That volunteers to say, "I'm gonna help my family member or my friend by donating on kidney or a section of their liver - . Which does grow back, by the way, in like two to nine weeks time."
Mindy Hargesheimer (26:56):
So say I have some questions about
Kim Harbur (26:58):
This. 98% of its original size. Livers are f - they don't have the sex appeal that a heart does. Yeah. But if you want an organ, that's the one you wanna get. 'Cause it's always churning in there. Those cells are always turning over and what we have found out recently is older donors and I'm talking about late 80s to 90s - Uh-huh. Sometimes have been able to donate their liver. Nothing else was good because of their age, but the liver was pristine. . So they used to set parameters on age and they've kind of pulled off of that - Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (27:29):
A little bit. I wondered about that.
Kim Harbur (27:30):
So the living donor and then the deceased donor would be someone in intensive care who's lost all brain function, but their bodies are healthy. And the last donor is called a DCD donor - Okay. Which is where they're in intensive care on life support with very small amount of brain activity - . And no hope for a meaningful recovery. . Now we can sit here all day on this podcast - ... And debate the definition of meaningful recovery. Mm. Everybody's got their own thing, their own, what does that feel like for my loved one? Yeah. But if someone knows that their loved one does not wanna live in a non-meaningful way, they choose to ask to have the ma - the machine turned off and removed - mm-
Page 14 of 33
hmm. And then their heart stops. . That's the time of death for them, but because they died in a hospital setting, they could be an organ donor.
(28:17):
I think I, I think we're up to, it used to be 20% of all donors were DCD donors. Okay. I think it's closer to 40 now. Oh. It's
Mindy Hargesheimer (28:25):
Quite a - Interesting. It's
Kim Harbur (28:26):
Quite a lot.
Mindy Hargesheimer (28:27):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (28:27):
And, and the reason it was kind of low for a while is because not all hospitals understood how to do a DCD donor.
Mindy Hargesheimer (28:35):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (28:35):
So that was part of it, but now more of them have that in place.
Mindy Hargesheimer (28:38):
Yeah. So I have a friend who lost her husband and he was in the hospital and he's an organ donor, um, and I think at one point she had talked to me about wanting to get in touch with the family.
Kirsten Finn (28:51):
.
Mindy Hargesheimer (28:52):
So who, who, what organization is facilitating the communication between the two families or the two individuals? Are you partnered with them? So - Are you in communication with them?
Kim Harbur (29:03):
So that goes back to probably either Midwest Transplant Network, our organ procurement org organization - Yeah. Because they're the, they're really in charge of that donor, right? Or sometimes they'll reach out to their what we call transplant coordinator or no, that'd be on the transplant s - that's the recipient side. The donor side, it would be through Midwest Transplant Network. Okay. Okay. That would be the best place for them
Mindy Hargesheimer (29:26):
That's just good to know. I kinda have a name, I think. No, that is good
Page 15 of 33
Kim Harbur (29:28):
To
Mindy Hargesheimer (29:28):
Know. Yeah.
Kim Harbur (29:28):
So they would reach out to them and
Mindy Hargesheimer (29:30):
Say,
Kim Harbur (29:31):
"You know, I think I'm ready to correspond potentially with my donor family. Can you help me do that? " And they would help them do that.
Mindy Hargesheimer (29:37):
Got it. Okay. Not an
Kim Harbur (29:38):
Easy letter to write.
Mindy Hargesheimer (29:39):
Right. No, absolutely not. So for somebody living like myself, are there organs that I can donate today voluntarily just to help the, the better good of donation or, or is it really more about like when I get to the point of death for myself that I would become? Like back to your point of the liver regenerates or Whatever. Are there things that I could donate that would just be for the better good?
Kim Harbur (30:03):
Well, bone marrow, bone marrow is, is one of them, because you have to be a living donor to donate, of course, bone marrow and blood, both of those. And cord blood,
Kirsten Finn (30:10):
Yep.
Kim Harbur (30:11):
And cord blood as well. . <affirmative>. Um, and then of course the kidney, one kidney or part of your liver and actually part of a lung can be donated, which is - Yeah, that's wild. As a living donor, which sounds totally insane. It does. But, um, um -
Mindy Hargesheimer (30:24):
I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable quite yet with that, but - Yeah,
Kim Harbur (30:26):
Because the lobes have a lot of different, uh, lobe... The lungs have a lot of different lobes to the lung, make
Mindy Hargesheimer (30:33):
It up
Kim Harbur (30:33):
The lungs. So you can take like a section of it. Yeah. Pope Francis, who is, you know, deceased, um, he's a great example because when he was in his 20s, he had one of his lungs removed and he lived until his late 80s now. He's got God pretty heavy on his side, so I don't - Sure. Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know. Yeah. But he's like the perfect example of someone who can live a full life -
Mindy Hargesheimer (30:56):
Yeah. With
Kim Harbur (30:56):
Just
Mindy Hargesheimer (30:57):
One - I don't think I realized that.
Kim Harbur (30:58):
One lung. Yeah.
Mindy Hargesheimer (30:59):
Okay. Very interesting. Okay. So let's go back to your son who has now, it's been 20 -
Kim Harbur (31:05):
Yeah, almost 30 years.
Mindy Hargesheimer (31:06):
Almost 30 years. What, um, like what happened immediately after you got... How quickly did you... Remind me how quickly you started the nonprofit after you went through it. Okay. And then how has he kind of like been involved? Yeah. Has he been a spokesperson for anything? Yeah. He's here. Yes. Yes. So we could meet him on the street somewhere and he's a walking testament to this. Yes,
Kim Harbur (31:24):
He is. Yeah.
(31:25):
He was transplanted in 1996 at 11 months old. He would have died by the age of two if he would not have received his liver. And then we had a good year of recovery ahead because just like Connor's story and Luke's story, the recovery period is at least a year. Okay. There's a lot back and forth to the hospital, doctors testing. I mean, there's still that too, but not like it is right after transplant. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. Yeah. . And then my husband approached me in about 97 about starting a
Page 17 of 33
nonprofit and then it took us a while to kind of get our head around that. He's a lawyer, so he could do a lot of the - Sure. Work for that. That's nice. Someone donated accounting services to set up the nonprofit. And so it was in the middle of 1998 is when we had our first board meeting.
Mindy Hargesheimer (32:16):
Okay. And how did you begin? What were the beginning years like with a nonprofit? Do you have any, do you have any advice for anyone? Oh my gosh, that's a whole nother podcast.
Kim Harbur (32:26):
I
Mindy Hargesheimer (32:26):
I love having nonprofits on.
Kim Harbur (32:28):
I, uh, I think it's better we knew nothing.
Mindy Hargesheimer (32:32):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (32:33):
You know, we went in pretty naive. Yeah. And I think - Little scrappy. Real scrappy. I mean, I think our budget was on one little piece of paper. Our first budget was like seven grand or something and now our budget's about 800,000 or something. Sure. So we've come a long way there. And we really just kind of got gathered people around the table for our board of directors to say we need more people to be educated about organ donation. How do we do that? And the first thing we did is we did establish the first fountain in the country to honor organ donors as at the Stowers Institute for Medical Research. And you think in the city of fountains, right, you could build a fountain. Oh, for God's sake, that took two years. Even
Mindy Hargesheimer (33:11):
More complicated
Kim Harbur (33:12):
Than anything. Two years to do that. Yeah. And we were donating the bronze sculpture as this energy. I mean, it's like, come on. Yeah. So anyway, we got that. Anyway, we're celebrating 25 years of that installation this year. And then we sat back and said, what do we do next? And it kind of morphed into the lifesavers program. And then the mentoring program, we went to Emory in Atlanta. Uh-huh. They have a really great mentoring program to learn about it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (33:34):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (33:34):
Came back and said, okay, we'll do something. Let's help 30 families. That sounds good. Sure. And I think now we've done 12, over 1,200 families in probably about 28 states, 29 states, something like that.
Mindy Hargesheimer (33:49):
I mean, do you sit back and just go, we are literally saving lives? Like this is - Well, that's interesting. You had asked me 40 years ago - Right. If I thought this was gonna my life path. Like how, what do you have to say about that?
Kim Harbur (34:01):
I will say that I have left work many times thinking we've saved a life today.
Kim Harbur (34:11):
And we might save another life tomorrow. And how many people can say that about their work? How many people can say that about their life?
Kirsten Finn (34:20):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (34:21):
Not too many can do that. And so we, now, we've made a lot of mistakes along the way, back to the nonprofit question, you know? Sure. You fall down, you learn, you do it better, you know, and we're still learning. That's all that's
Mindy Hargesheimer (34:33):
In everything we're doing, right?
Kim Harbur (34:34):
We're still learning. Yeah. And, and you know, that, that, that's okay as long as you keep learning.
Mindy Hargesheimer (34:39):
.
Kim Harbur (34:39):
<affirmative>. But I was telling, we had three little sixth graders in this morning to volunteer for us. Oh. And I was
Mindy Hargesheimer (34:45):
Telling - I gotta get my girls in.
Kim Harbur (34:46):
Darling. And we were, I was talking to them and I said, "If you don't learn anything else today, you take this home with you. What seems as possible? Oh, it's possible." Whatever that is. Yeah. And they wrote me a little thank you note and they put that in there. It was so sweet. And, and that, there's a lot of truth to that. Yeah, that will leave an impression on me. As moms, we've worked, we've walked what seemed impossible. Yeah. But look at us. Our kids are vibrant and they're here. Yeah. Yeah. And it is possible.
Page 19 of 33
Now, not all transplant outcomes are like ours. Right. Right. There are people that don't survive the transplant or they don't live that long after the trans - So our stories are ongoing, but we're very grateful.
Mindy Hargesheimer (35:31):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (35:31):
And, and Luke volunteers for Gift of Life. He's been very involved with, he's one of our ambassadors in the classroom and he
Mindy Hargesheimer (35:37):
Does a
Kim Harbur (35:37):
Lot of work for us too.
Mindy Hargesheimer (35:39):
Well, that was a question I had is how can people get involved? So volunteers, donations, do you guys have events? What are all the different things that we can engage with? And you know, by the way, obviously I'm Kansas City, but then on the, the world of YouTube, it's people all over, over the country that will hear this. Okay, good. So what are the different ways that people can interact in whether in person or digitally, I guess?
Kim Harbur (36:05):
Well, so whatever state you live in, you can go to donate life and fill in your state. And that will pull up your donor registry for your state. Okay. So that's a really important thing if you want to register and be
Mindy Hargesheimer (36:17):
A donor. And I'll link that with everything too.
Kim Harbur (36:18):
Yeah. Yeah. And then our website is giftdonor.org, um, is our website, which we're getting ready to revamp our whole website very soon. We're very excited. We just got a, a large contribution to do that. So we're very excited. And it's overdue. And I'm, can you tell I'm excited? I'm very excited. Very excited about that.
Mindy Hargesheimer (36:35):
What's the ETA on that one?
Kim Harbur (36:37):
Well, it's probably, I bet it's, I'd say a year because, because we're folding in a lot of components to it. Sure. It's gonna be a very large project.
Mindy Hargesheimer (36:45):
Yeah.
Page 20 of 33
Kim Harbur (36:45):
And, um, you know, volunteering, we have a golf tournament in September - Okay. Called Golf, Golf for Life. And that, that was started by a family whose daughter died at the age of three waiting for a heart transplant. This is our, I think our 17th one.
Mindy Hargesheimer (37:00):
Oh wow. I'm pretty
Kim Harbur (37:01):
Sure.
Mindy Hargesheimer (37:01):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (37:02):
We have a thing called the Lifesavers Rally, which is bringing high school students together at the University of Rockhurst. That's October. And we do a two and a half hour workshop for them and have speakers and that's a really great day. We have trivia night. I'll let you talk about trivia night.
Kirsten Finn (37:17):
Uh, trivia night, uh, supports the Transplant Mentors Program. . Uh, recently we've had it at the Armacost Museum. So fam - people can come and, uh, sponsor a table or people in the transplant community can have a table and it's a really, really fun night -
Mindy Hargesheimer (37:33):
Yeah.
Kirsten Finn (37:34):
Um, for people to get together that have walked a similar path. . Um, who really wanna support the mission of Gift of Life.
Kim Harbur (37:40):
And our, our MC for that the last couple years is Dr. Matt Wilkinson. He's liver kidney transplant surgeon at St. Luke's. Okay. And he wanted to do one of the rounds of questions last year. And I'm like, "Dr. Wilkinson, these are hard." Yeah. These are really... He goes, "Oh, they're not that hard." I'm like, "These are really hard." Everyone's watching
Mindy Hargesheimer (37:57):
This kid these days, you
Kim Harbur (37:58):
Know? Everybody's a - I was
Mindy Hargesheimer (37:59):
Page 21 of 33
An ER nurse. And they were hard. Yeah. It's really hard. That's so funny for him. He's like, "This is easy. What are you talking about?
Kim Harbur (38:06):
" But our, our signature, uh, event's coming up next Saturday. It's May 2nd. It's called Go See Do. Oh, right. Okay. And you, you go on one tour. There are 11 tour experiences set up from noon to one. It might be a wine tasting, Christopher Elbow. Um -
Mindy Hargesheimer (38:20):
Got my attention.
Kim Harbur (38:20):
I mean, we've got breweries. We've got Tim - Tom Tibble speaking about jewelry and the one park place. I mean, there's a lot of great things. So there's 11 of those from noon to one.
Kirsten Finn (38:30):
Okay.
Kim Harbur (38:30):
You pick one of those and then everybody goes to the Grand Hall for a program and auction and live auction. And that's our signature piece. We've done - Yeah. I think this is our 23rd Go See Doo. The first year we had three tours. We netted $10,000. We had 90 people. We were so excited. This year we've got 11 tours. We'll have about 300 and, little over 300 people and we'll net, I hope about 180,000, maybe close to $200,000. Okay. So that's a really big event for us.
Mindy Hargesheimer (38:58):
Yeah. Do you guys, you mentioned some of like, you know, the Christopher, Christopher Elbows world. Uh-huh <affirmative>. Do you partner with anybody else here that should be mentioned? Um, you've already mentioned KU, St. Luke's, everybody.
Kim Harbur (39:08):
No, it's really the hospitals.
Mindy Hargesheimer (39:10):
Yeah.
Kim Harbur (39:10):
We do work with Midwest Transplant Network.
Mindy Hargesheimer (39:12):
And I saw that they had a Charlie Hustle t-shirt.
Kim Harbur (39:14):
Yes. They just had that put out
Mindy Hargesheimer (39:16):
Page 22 of 33
Recently. Yes. That was this year. Yes. I don't know that it's ill available, unfortunately. I don't think it is. I wanted to go find it. Yeah. But maybe if Charlie Hustle has any laying around - Yeah, they just did that. Our hands on it. Yes. Yeah. Those are really cool. They do the community tease. Yeah. And I don't know if like, I don't know how they pick who's doing it or if they come to them, but I love that they do that. It's really good. Yeah. What, um, for you guys with this organization and you joined a few months ago, what is the hope to where you wanna continue to take this to? Do you think about, I mean, the cliche five, 10,
50 years from now, you know, what, what are you wanting to - I'll
Kim Harbur (39:51):
Let you
Mindy Hargesheimer (39:52):
Go first.
Kirsten Finn (39:52):
You let me go first. Um, my goal for the Transplant Mentors Program is to, uh, continue our outreach and expand the number of hospitals we're dealing with. . Uh, what's unique about Gift of Life's mentoring program is it's not location specific. Now certainly people can say they want to be matched with somebody at the same center or the same state, which we, we attempt to do. Sure. Um, or they might have spiritual considerations. They might want to talk to somebody the same gender. Mm hmm. So we have a whole matching process that we go through. Okay. So my goal is to expand the program to as many hospitals as possible. . To have a really nice base of mentors, um, of different types of, you know, transplants so that when we make a match for somebody - . It's going to be a really meaningful connection that's made.
(40:36):
Yeah. Um, I interview all of our mentors and get to know them and as I've taken on the position, I'm reaching out to all of them so that I can get a really good sense of their story, their personality. Yeah. And then when I get through all the other factors that the mentee is requesting - . That I have that really tangible anecdotal information where I can make a really successful match. So that's my goal. Um, we are launching our living donor program this month. Okay. Um, and that, um, 20% of our matches last year were actually living donors. Okay. And deciding to become a living donor is a huge decision to make. . Yeah. And so our mentors are very compasionate, understanding, kind of walk people through the, what the process is like in a very, um, impartial, you know, non-judgmental way, just empowering these people to understand the process and make a meaningful decision for themselves.
(41:32):
. And so growing that program, um, we're very excited about. And then making sure that we are, um, being inclusive, um, by ethnicity, you know - Yep. Different things so that we're reaching the maximum number of people. Amazing. Yeah. And supporting them. Um, I think, Kim, you can speak to this. Uh, I felt it very much when my son went through transplant. Mindset is everything.
(41:56):
Oh, sure. And what our mentors provide is support that they're not gonna get from somebody who hasn't been through the process. . They're also going to get, um, somebody who can give them hope. . And that, you know, I was once asked what got me through Connor's transplant and it was hope. Right. That's really all you
Mindy Hargesheimer (42:14):
Got. And they can understand that more. We don't
Page 23 of 33
Kim Harbur (42:16):
Have much of anything else. Yeah. Yeah. We really don't because a lot of it is just you can't control the human body.
Mindy Hargesheimer (42:23):
So if anyone knows anyone who has been through this, refer them to become a mentor with you guys?
Kirsten Finn (42:30):
Absolutely. Yeah. We get referrals from, uh, transplant centers. Um, certain mentors are more in demand than others. . So with kidney donation being the largest number of transplants that are done, we have a lot of kidney mentors. Um, but certainly, um, like for heart -
Mindy Hargesheimer (42:45):
.
Kirsten Finn (42:45):
Um, transplant mentors, lung transplant mentors. Uh, people who have had dual transplant, like liver, kidney, kidney, pancreas. Okay. Those kind of things. And that's not to say those mentors can't mentor somebody who's had one of those organs transplanted. Sure. But sometimes if somebody's facing a double transplant, they'd like to talk with somebody who's been through a similar circumstance. Wow. So by, by trying to strategically recruit mentors as well - . So that we have a really diverse population from which to choose to make a really successful match.
Mindy Hargesheimer (43:14):
This might be a dumb question, but why is kidneys, why is that the number one? What's behind that?
Kim Harbur (43:21):
Go for it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (43:23):
Or do we know? Well, well
Kirsten Finn (43:24):
Well, I, it's the most common type of transplant that's done.
Kim Harbur (43:29):
Yeah. But we, we, we don't have, we're not as healthy as a society as we should be. Yes, that's true. So, you know, high blood pressure. . Salty foods. Yeah. Medications. Medications. Watching your weight. You know, all these things play a f - not that all that happens and that's because - Of course, yeah. But a lot of it is becau - and just taking care of ourselves.m. Um, is part of the reason why there's a high, a high need. Okay.
Kirsten Finn (43:57):
And kidney failure can be secondary to other types of, um - Yes. Autoimmune conditions. . Okay. And so somebody will get the autoimmune -
Page 24 of 33
Kim Harbur (44:03):
Right.
Kirsten Finn (44:04):
Condition. It attacks the kidneys. They're caput. And so I think that's the biggest reason why kidney would probably be -
Mindy Hargesheimer (44:11):
I suppose that's a whole other podcast episode to talk about what we can do. You've
Kim Harbur (44:14):
Got a lot of other podcasts off of this one now. I know I do. A lot different avenues, nonprofit.
Mindy Hargesheimer (44:20):
Bring it on, bring it on, right?
Kim Harbur (44:21):
But I will say, um, patient to patient discussion about a transplant journey is very different than patient to medical professional. And that's why the mentoring is so... We had no, no one. That's a good point. In fact, we, this was like before the internet was kind of like a thing. Um, I had to go down - Bring us all back. I, I, I told the intern, I spoke with the interns at, uh, residents at Children's Mercy recently and I said, "Now, you all are too young to know this, but right where you're standing there, and there's still mer - maybe there was a library at Children's Mercy in the basement." And I had to go down there and look words up. I didn't understand what some of this meant. Sure. That's how we were learning. Yeah. I mean, we didn't have anybody. We were the first local family to receive a pediatric liver transplant.
(45:08):
Wow. The program was very new. . And there was a large learning curve. I bet. But we, we did it. And that's the point. You know, that's what's important
Mindy Hargesheimer (45:17):
Is we do it. And here you are decades later.
Kim Harbur (45:18):
Uh, decades, honey. Yeah. That's right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (45:21):
Decades
Kim Harbur (45:21):
And wrinkles later. I'm still here. That's right.
Mindy Hargesheimer (45:23):
Love it, but saving lives. I mean, literally. Right, right. So has that, um, how has this impacted you guys, just out of curiosity individually about how you do look at life and how you think about legacy or how
Page 25 of 33
you think about living every day to the fullest? I mean, what does that look like for you as two who've gone through a difficult, um -
Kim Harbur (45:43):
Well...
Mindy Hargesheimer (45:44):
Situation? Uh,
Kim Harbur (45:45):
That's a really good question. I, I kinda take... I'm not a big look in the future person. . I'm a big, let's deal with what's in front of us person, because that's big enough, right?
Mindy Hargesheimer (45:57):
Sure.
Kim Harbur (45:58):
And so for me, I, I do embrace every day. I, I am very grateful that I was in a position - . You know, to give back to the community. The community been good to both of us professionally. And so we were kind of really compelled to do this. Most people would get a transplant and say thank you and go on with their life. Sure. But that just didn't feel like us. . Now I didn't know that it would be the beast that it has become.
Mindy Hargesheimer (46:27):
No kidding. Yeah.
Kim Harbur (46:29):
The good, bad, and the ugly, right? Um, so knowing when I speak to nonprofit classes in the college level, you know, this is a thing that I do sometimes, which I really enjoy that too. Awesome. But I do look at life a little differently. I'm just grateful for my life honestly. . In a big bundle. I don't know if you look at yours different. No one's really asked me that question before. That's a good question.
Kirsten Finn (46:51):
Um, definitely on the gratitude, I'm immensely grateful. Um, with my son's condition - . Um, they pretty much lose every functional ability they have, like sight, hearing, communication, ability to eat - Geez. Uh, before they fall into a vegetative state and die for that condition. And so, um, I work a lot supporting families with my son's condition and, um, my son had an opportunity to fight. . And I want every child to have the opportunity to fight. Yeah. And I think when people have been through an experience like this, some people do wanna get through it - That's right. And then they wanna put as much distance between themselves - Right. And what has happened as possible. . Um, for me, I find supporting families very healing.
Mindy Hargesheimer (47:37):
Yeah.
Kirsten Finn (47:38):
Page 26 of 33
And so - I can imagine. Um, having that ability to talk to someone who's been through it, um, in my work at Children's Mercy and the parent support program, I can't count the number of times people, you know, we'd engage in a conversation. I get referrals to go up to the rooms and we chat and they said, you know, Kirsten, people have, uh, give me the names of counselors. They've given me social workers. . I wanna talk to someone who's been through it.
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:01):
Right.
Kirsten Finn (48:02):
And so having that available - It just
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:04):
Makes sense. Yeah. You know,
Kirsten Finn (48:05):
Absolutely.
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:06):
So, and, and this program began when? When you started the mentorship program? Like 08.
Kim Harbur (48:11):
2008.
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:12):
08. Was anybody else doing anything like that before? Were you guys really the first on the scene to kind of - Here in Kansas City
Kim Harbur (48:16):
Or you mean nationally?
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:17):
I guess nationally, but here too. I mean - I think
Kim Harbur (48:20):
There weren't a lot of programs. We did a little digging and that's when we, we found that Emory was doing such a great job in Atlanta. Right. So we went out there to kind of pick their brains a litle bit. But some, some of the hospitals like Stanford, I believe, has their own mentoring program. Okay. So there are some of the transplant centers that have their own program. And that's fine. . But they're, most of them don't. Yeah. 'Cause they're so busy doing other things.
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:44):
They
Kirsten Finn (48:44):
Page 27 of 33
Are. And like, I, I can speak to how busy life gets in the hospital as an ER nurse. Oh
Mindy Hargesheimer (48:48):
Gosh.
Kirsten Finn (48:49):
I can imagine. Social workers run off their fee. Yeah, they're busy. Yeah. So they don't necessarily have the time to put all of the effort into what it takes to really recruit quality mentors - . To be able to make those matches appropriately, I think. Yeah. And in addition to, um, having the ability of dealing with so many hospitals nationwide - . To be able to match circumstances a little bit better. Mm
hmm. Um, and I think when I, I did some analysis just in terms of developing the program and there's about nine mentoring programs in the country, but some are very location specific. Okay. Very Oregon specific. And so I think Gift of Life is uniquely positioned to support families because we do have that diversity. Yeah. And that geographic reach.
Mindy Hargesheimer (49:31):
That's awesome.
Kim Harbur (49:32):
I, I do wanna add one thing only because if I don't, I'll forget.
Mindy Hargesheimer (49:36):
Sure.
Kim Harbur (49:36):
Please do.
Mindy Hargesheimer (49:36):
Um,
Kim Harbur (49:37):
If you're, if there's a listener out there that has a child that is going through a transplant or actually just a medical condition - . It's very important to make sure you balance that with your other children. Mm. Because this is very difficult for the siblings. And for them, because you have to spend so much time with the child that's sick. . You don't want them to ever feel forgotten. And I know that that can happen. It's happened in our family. Sure. And I, I, I just wanna say that to - That's a great point. Anybody that's listening. That's a really important thing, even though it seems impossible. Yeah. Um, we did the best we could at the time. . And that's what we all do. We do the best we can at the time. Of course. But looking back, I would really put that out on the table.
Mindy Hargesheimer (50:32):
No, I think you guys probably have so many words of wisdom - Yeah. Going through this. Thatm. Yeah. So I appreciate that. I think that's huge. And, um, I think that applies to a lot of family dynamics, you know? It does. It
Kim Harbur (50:44):
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Does. It does.
Mindy Hargesheimer (50:45):
But in this, in this case, yeah, that, that's a great reminder because you have, um, other children as well who are -
Kirsten Finn (50:52):
Yeah, I've got 15 year old twin boys. Yeah. And, uh, when we went for transplant, it was COVID and so we didn't see them for 45 days.
Mindy Hargesheimer (51:00):
Oh my gosh.
Kirsten Finn (51:00):
So we were in the hospital and, um, it, it does come back where siblings can feel like they didn't get the t - attention they needed when they needed it. . And I remember saying to my boys at one point that, you know, I can love you the same, but I can't always treat you the same. Mm. You know, because you are different. And I said, at this particular time, Connor really needed us. Yeah. I said, there is likely gonna come a time in your life where you're really gonna need us and we will be there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (51:28):
Yeah.
Kirsten Finn (51:28):
And, but I also apologized to them too. And I said, I know this was hard and I, I recognize and own the fact that there's a million things I could've done better. . But -
Mindy Hargesheimer (51:37):
Yeah, and obviously the older they get, the more, of course they'll realize that, you know. They do. Um, going back to the girl, the sixth graders, what do they do when they volunteer?
Kim Harbur (51:47):
Well, they helped us put some, uh, cards and some envelopes today that we're actually giving away at our fundraiser. Okay. So they were there for a couple hours. Yep. I think they came in. I think it' take your child to work day today. Is that amazing? Oh is that what it is? Did I
Mindy Hargesheimer (52:00):
Make that up? It is today. No it did not. You did make it up. It is today. Yeah.
Kim Harbur (52:03):
So one of our board members a nurse, uh, and does, uh, kind of oversees all the nursing for the kidney transplants at U. Okay. And so she brought in one of her daughters and two of their friends.
Mindy Hargesheimer (52:15):
So that's not normally a volunteer type thing for -
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Kim Harbur (52:17):
No, but there's usually something going on that we can have someone help us with. But we're not too hands on, you know - Yeah. In the office. But there are times where we need hands on in the
Mindy Hargesheimer (52:28):
Office. Okay. Well, I'll just reach back out to you guys. Yeah. Or you reach out to me when there's something like that that we can get the word out. Oh, that's nice. Okay, good. Um, okay. So anything else that you guys haven't talked about yet that you wanna get the word out about? And then let's just reconfirm kind of that call to action for people to - Sure. Engage and play a part how they can.
Kim Harbur (52:45):
Let me think now.
Mindy Hargesheimer (52:47):
.
Kim Harbur (52:48):
Did we cover it all? I think we did. We, we were excited about the online program. I do wanna talk a little bit about that for HISA, if there's teachers listening, that we, we wanted to pa - we tried to pass a law. Well, we actually did pass a law. Wow. Now I've never... Someone said, Kim, you need to pass the law. I'm like, I don't know how to pass the law. I'm like,
Mindy Hargesheimer (53:09):
I don't know what that entails. I don't
Kim Harbur (53:10):
Even know what that's taught. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. So what we did is we took our in - person classroom program - . And we put it into an online format for teachers to use in their classroom, because we can't get to every classroom in the United States of America. Sure. So what happened was we wanted to try to pass the law and we started in Missouri first to mandate 30
minutes of organ donation education in every public school, public high school and chartered high school in the state. We did not get that. What we got instead was if you are asked, if you asked to have this information presented to a school board, the law states they have to put you on the agenda. They can't tell you no. Okay. Well, there's 447 school districts just saying in the state of Missouri.
(53:53):
And we have 34 to go. Wow. We're almost there. That, that's just - You're really
Mindy Hargesheimer (53:57):
Close.
Kim Harbur (53:57):
This has been a labor of love and then COVID got in there and all that. Dang it, COVID. And so that's been a really... And that's at learnlifesavers.com. Anybody can click on it and use it. It's like a lesson plan. So we're, we're, I'm very proud of that project. You should be. But I wanted to get it to the finish line. 100%. And I'm just like dragging myself to that finish line. Well,
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Mindy Hargesheimer (54:18):
Let's see how we can help
Kim Harbur (54:19):
With that. We're gonna get there. We're gonna get there.
Mindy Hargesheimer (54:22):
Awesome. Okay, good. Very good. Um, well, let's just do for fun. You are from Canada. Yes.
Kim Harbur (54:28):
You
Mindy Hargesheimer (54:29):
Are from here. I am. So totally different. But what do you guys love the most about living and working here? Mm.
Kim Harbur (54:36):
I'm gonna let you go first. I've lived here a long time.
Kirsten Finn (54:39):
When we got back to Canada after transplant, um, I wasn't working because I was looking after Connor. And so, um, my husband's, uh, had the opportunity of a transfer to the States. And, uh, we were given the choice of Texas, Lafayette, Louisiana, and Overland Park, Kansas. Okay. And Craig let me choose. And I chose Overland Park, Kansas. And, um, the people here have just been extraordinary to us in every possible way. Great choice. Absolutely love it. I've told my husband we're not moving again.
Kim Harbur (55:09):
Yay.
Kirsten Finn (55:10):
Um, we've received extraordinary care at Children's Mercy. They've been Connor's advocate in every possible way. Yeah. And I'm immensely grateful for them, um, that they are stewards of Connor's care. Um, and just the people in Kansas. Uh, it's just been the most wonderful experience.
Mindy Hargesheimer (55:25):
Yeah. That's usually what I hear people. And you and I talked about it. Children's Mercy. Got a lot of topics and people I'd love to bring in. Oh yeah. Absolutely. So we'll be working on that. Yeah.
Kim Harbur (55:35):
I think for me, you know, I've, I've, I was born in Western Kansas, but I've lived here since I was three and I'm old, so a long time. And then my husband grew
Mindy Hargesheimer (55:44):
Up here. Forever 25,
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Kim Harbur (55:45):
That's what I said. There you go, that's it. Yeah. My husband also was born here and, and raised here. And we're pretty global people. . We've had the luxury to travel and - Love it. Um, you know, we, we have wide minds, wide lenses, and we always feel good about coming home. Yeah. And I think we are one of the best kept secrets. . And when people say - Some people wanna
Mindy Hargesheimer (56:10):
Keep it that
Kim Harbur (56:10):
Way. Why, you know, why do you, why do you wanna go to Kansas? Yeah. What goes on in Kansas? I say, have you ever been there? No. Well, then you don't know what you' missing. And then the people that come, they're so surprised - Yeah. About the treat that's here.
Mindy Hargesheimer (56:23):
Yeah. We know that moving from here from out of state. Okay. Where did you move from? We came from Chago. Okay. There's a big city. So people were like, literally verbatim like - Right. Kansas? Right, right. Are you excited? Yeah. Well,
Kirsten Finn (56:35):
I even got that from people when I told them we were moving to Kansas and they said, "Why would you do that? "
Mindy Hargesheimer (56:39):
Right,
Kirsten Finn (56:39):
Right. . And you know how they call it the flyover states - Yeah. I guess is what you guys call it. Uh, no, Kansas is not.
Mindy Hargesheimer (56:45):
Which it's so much more on the map than it ever has been. Yes. Yes. So I would hope people don't talk about it like that anymore, but who knows? They probably did. Oh no, that's okay. Oh, good. Well, this has been super enlightening. Good. Um, and I do think this was such a great opportunity, like I said in the beginning, for me to connect with you guys, to learn what I can do to share with my own family what, you know, they can play a part in and how we can talk to each other. And, and so I, I'm really excited for people to learn more about this and, um, help you guys in any way that they can. And literally, like I said, across the country, specifically here, anyone and everyone. So -
Kim Harbur (57:20):
We appreciate the opportunity, you know? So, you know, register it, Donate Life, whatever state you live in, and as well as sit down and have that conversation about what you wanna do or what you don't wanna do. Sure. Because those conversations really matter.
Mindy Hargesheimer (57:34):
Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much. Thank you. You're
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Kim Harbur (57:35):
Welcome. Thank you.
Mindy Hargesheimer (57:38):
Thank you so much for tuning in and finding inspiration in these incredible stories. If you love what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Leave a rating and share the show to help these Kansas City voices reach even more listeners.
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